Mono red card advantage
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 16, 2017, 6:15 p.m. by Geralf_Cecani
So I'm making a Neheb, the Eternal commander deck and (obviously) I'm having issues with recurrable card draw. I thought about using "exile the top card of you library, you may play that card until end of turn" type spells, but there are only four recurrable ones, one of which is fine, Outpost Siege, but the others all have some massive downsides,such as Chandra, Pyromaster's inability to tick up if you use that ability constantly and Vance's Blasting Cannons Flip turning into a shitty land. And Chandra, Torch of Defiance costs the earth, and will continue to do so until Kaladesh rotates out of standard. Those last two dom't even hit lands anyway. So I then bit the bullet and decided to use Grafted Skullcap since it combos with Pyromancer's Swath and all, but the only cards that I could find that had a similar effect were Avaricious Dragon and Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker! As his ultimate! Help a guy out, and throw me some recurrable card draw in mono red that can secure my land drops early game (so no Staff of Nin lol) for an affordable price (I wish I could afford Mind's Eye...)
what about Faithless Looting? it "loots" you two cards,and is recurrable because it has flashback. thats about all i got. good luck.
November 16, 2017 6:31 p.m.
Faithless Looting? Infiltration Lens? Skullclamp? Spinerock Knoll? Rummaging Goblin?
cycle lands, like Forgotten Cave, Smoldering Crater, Desert of the Fervent, etc.?
November 16, 2017 6:35 p.m.
Geralf_Cecani says... #5
wheel is good,but it's not recurrable. The deck tries to drop Sizzle or something on the first main phase with a Guttersnipe or something, and swing with Neheb, and then cast Earthquake for 20-30 mana. If shit goes well, you can kill everyone simultaneously. Thus, creatures aren't a major part of the deck, so clamp wouldn't work. And I'm looking for spells that give me a surplus of spells over time, so the top and the rack aren't exactly what I'm looking for. Also, $20 is a bit steep for me.
Thanks for the help, you weren't to know, I was very brief in my question so just posting this for later arrivals.
November 16, 2017 6:37 p.m.
in that case, Faithless Looting and the cycle lands are good options. I also still think that wheel effects are a very good source of card draw. even in your case. Reforge the Soul is a good budget one.
November 16, 2017 6:47 p.m.
Geralf_Cecani says... #7
Faithless Looting is definitely a good card and it is in the deck, but it isn't exactly what I'm looking for. I'm looking for any red versions of cards like Phyrexian Arena. Neheb has afflict, so the lens would end up more like an unblockable spell than card draw, and as I said to wurm, the clamp doesn't fit the deck. The knoll is a good addition tho, since the entire point of the deck is to deal lots of damage in one turn. The gobbo is good as well, as I could dump all my late game cards whilst looking for lands early on.
Thanks for the tips either way!
November 16, 2017 6:50 p.m.
Geralf_Cecani says... #8
Yeah, the cycle lands would help a bunch later on when Neheb is making all the mana. Thnx!
Thanks for pointing out the budget version of wheel, wurm, didn't know that was a card. That's also gonna go into my Rakdos, Lord of Riots deck.
Thanks for the tips!
November 16, 2017 6:56 p.m.
Mask of Memory is also a good card, and I feel obligated to point out that you don't have to flip Vance's Blasting Cannons Flip if you don't want to.
November 16, 2017 7:34 p.m.
Geralf_Cecani says... #11
Holy shit, I'm an idiot.
I never noticed it was a may trigger...
Ok, it's a pretty good card now. Shame it doesn't hit lands tho.
November 16, 2017 7:53 p.m.
Yeah, that would make it much better. Act on Impulse is also a card, basically Red's Divination, and Tormenting Voice and Cathartic Reunion can both give you card selection if not card advantage.
November 16, 2017 7:57 p.m. Edited.
Geralf_Cecani says... #13
Mask of Memory is a really good card for this deck tho, especially since I'm planning on having multiple ways of giving neheb flying so he can survive Earthquake
Again, shame afflict isn't combat damage.
November 16, 2017 7:57 p.m.
Geralf_Cecani says... #14
November 16, 2017 8 p.m.
Geralf_Cecani says... #15
I'm running Tormenting Voice and Cathartic Reunion because I'm also running copy sorcery spells such as Howl of the Horde. I'm doing so because its cheaper to cast Earthquake for four and copy it than it is to cast it for ten. But with reunion, the discard us a cost to play the spell, so when you copy it, it simply becomes "draw three cards".
They also provide some card advantage when paired with Past in Flames, which is also in the deck (hooray for mana rituals!)
November 16, 2017 8:07 p.m.
vance's blasting cannons transform ability if optional, if that helps you by any means
November 16, 2017 8:11 p.m.
jamesesdad says... #17
having built several mono red EDH decks I can honestly say what you are looking for doesn't really exist. Drawing cards isn't really red's part of the color pie. As others have stated, red has 'impulse' exile based card draw, where you use it or lose it, but that's really it.
Loot effects are great for filtering your hand, but should in no sense be put into a 'card draw/advantage' category. Sure you are drawing cards, but you are discarding the exact same amount of cards, and will still wind up in the position where you run out of gas before everyone else and can't refill your hand. Same thing for the cycling lands, these don't help you refill when low on resources. They simply filter and replace themselves.
Outpost siege is as close as you are going to get to phyrexian arena in red, and probably the best raw card advantage for red besides wheels. I honestly think you should heavily consider the wheels, as they are the only cards that seem to do what you are asking. As stated red simply doesn't have access to card draw, and the colorless options are very situational or expensive to cast. The wheels are about as good as you can hope to get in mono red, and can still hit them with your recursion from past in flames.
Another point, cards like tormenting voice and cathartic reunion are absolutely miserable if people are running counterspells in your meta since you have to discard the cards as a cost when you cast the spell. they effectively two (or even 3) for one you with a single piece of removal, which hurts even more when you lack options to refill your hand after a blowout like that.
Another option would be sad robot Solemn Simulacrum, which draws a card, and helps ramp. If you have a way to recur solemn that can absolutely be a draw engine.
November 17, 2017 3:43 a.m.
jamesesdad says... #18
This may be too expensive for your budge, but Scrying Sheets with the majority of your lands being Snow-Covered Mountains and Mouth of Ronom can be a way to get cards for red, made even stronger with Sensei's Divining Top top and Scroll Rack. Of course this doesn't really achieve your goal of early game card draw, just a potential avenue for card advantage in a color that desperately needs it.
November 17, 2017 5:14 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #20
Commune with Lava, Chandras, Reforge the Soul, Outpost Siege or Sin Prodder are good in my own Neheb.
Now Mind Stone or Hedron Archive type of cards are also a good way to keep the hand filled while ramping ;)
November 17, 2017 9 a.m.
The kind of cards you are describing will ALWAYS be hella expensive to buy, as they are very rare in
It only helps to filter, but Smuggler's Copter is now cheap, and helps to loot. Plus gives a flier.
November 17, 2017 10:44 a.m.
As Sin Prodder was already mentioned it has a bigger brother in Combustible Gearhulk.
November 17, 2017 11:02 a.m.
marcopollo says... #24
[Browbeat] is a punisher but that can work too. [Rite of the Raging Storm] can give you board advantage which is like casting ball lightning every turn.
November 17, 2017 11:06 a.m.
It depends on how often you have cards in your hand. Avaricious Dragon gives you an extra card, but you need to discard your hand at end of turn. Chandra, Flamecaller's '0' ability makes you discard your hand, but you draw that many cards plus one, and Bedlam Reveler makes you discard your hand, but you draw 3. Combustible Gearhulk can let you draw cards, particularly if you play good politics.
Humble Defector lets you draw two cards on your turn, but then he goes to your opponent. If you have a Homeward Path in play, you can get him back from your opponent each turn.
Farsight Mask is another possibility. Lets you draw whenever an opponent damages you.
November 17, 2017 4:38 p.m.
landofMordor says... #27
There's also colorless sources like Mind Stone, Hedron Archive, etc.
Also...you could totally use Aggressive Mining on the final turn of the game to cause a bunch of damage, draw cards, and then use Neheb's ability to cast them lol. Just a cute idea.
November 17, 2017 5:12 p.m.
Suns_Champion says... #28
Most of the cards that I run in OH LORD JESUS IT'S A FIRE! | Neheb EDH have already been mentioned, but I thought I'd chime in anyway.
A red version of Phyrexian Arena does not exist :(
That said, Neheb has some pretty good options.
Sword of Fire and Ice is great because it will deal damage, draw a card, and protect Neheb from your own x spells. Everything you want!
Hedron Archive, Knollspine Dragon, Infiltration Lens, Reforge the Soul, and Throne of the High City are all solid additions, but not amazing.
Blah blah, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, blah blah
Commune with Lava is really great. You can use the cards for two whole turns so you can dump your mana into it, then next turn have a huge card advantage.
Prophetic Flamespeaker is also good. Attach the sword to him.
Humble Defector(if you run Homeward Path)
Also Grenzo, Havoc Raiser is sorta a card advantage? I've found him useful anyway.
November 17, 2017 6:33 p.m.
I am learning so much from this discussion.
It's not card draw but Sword of the Animist can start removing lands from your deck, so there is more chance of you drawing non-land cards.
It's excellent when paired with Rogue's Passage.
November 19, 2017 7:17 a.m. Edited.
MagicalHacker says... #30
Since I didn't get a direct answer, I am just going to infer that you want cards that cost at most 5 mana and cards that cost at most 8 dollars (you mentioned Staff of Nin and Mind's Eye which almost make it but don't).
Not knowing the rest of the deck and if you have lots of creatures in it (where Skullclamp and friends would be fantastic), here is a list I found of cards that should help after looking through MagicalHacker - List of All Draw Cards (Steady), my resource of all available efficient cards that let you repeatedly gain card advantage:
- Sunset Pyramid
- Bottled Cloister
- Oracle's Vault
- Seer's Sundial
- Tapestry of the Ages
- Thran Tome
- Illuminated Folio
- Moonring Mirror
- Treasure Map Flip
Take a look at that previously linked list to see exactly what can and can't work for you, and I'm sure that you'll find more than enough cards to do what you want. :)
November 19, 2017 7:18 p.m.
Staff of Nin, The Immortal Sun and Darksteel Pendant are great options
November 14, 2018 11:47 a.m.
The new Experimental Frenzy card is worth consideration.
Has Bomat Courier already been suggested?
November 14, 2018 12:01 p.m. Edited.
blazestudios23 says... #33
I'm not sure why no one is mentioning this but the best way to get draw in Red or White for that matter other than wheel cards, which you should run, are artifacts.
There are many artifact cards that let you draw an extra card each turn, even the ones that make everyone draw a card each turn seem to give Red more advantage than other colors as your burn and copy spells are very strong.
Mind's Eye is 100% worth it. Howling Mine and Font of Mythos are both actually very good in mono red. I run all of the above plus these: Coercive Portal, Coveted Jewel, Endless Atlas, Temple Bell, and The Immortal Sun
Lands can help you draw too: Arch of Orazca, Geier Reach Sanitarium, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, Sea Gate Wreckage, and Treasure Cove
If you run out of cards before you opponent Ghirapur Orrery, would be a great card. Red is all about taking huge risks/gambles which pay off in the end. And you should run Gamble too by the way.
If you run Wheel effects or effects that make everyone discard and draw, Geth's Grimoire, can give you huge advantage.
If you are having trouble with lands I also recommend running more mana rocks.
Cards that make Red spells cost 1 mana less to cast are very helpfull as well as anything that will double your mana.
I also highly recommend Mizzix's Mastery, very powerful when combined with wheels and copied. You can recast the wheel cards on the first go and then use the cards you discarded from the wheel for the second go. I've cast over 20 spells in one turn doing this and managed to cast 3 cards that made me empty my hand end redraw that many cards or 7 cards using Mizzix's Mastery.
I have two Red & White decks, one uses Wheel type cards heavily, the other uses Mana Rocks and Artifacts to make you or everyone draw cards.
Wurmlover says... #2
I mean, Wheel of Fortune and similar effects is the best that you're gonna get other than Sensei's Divining Top or Scroll Rack. Mono-red and card draw really don't go together. if you use goblins, Skullclamp can be a good engine.
November 16, 2017 6:29 p.m.