Making her more degenerate
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on April 9, 2018, 10:55 a.m. by UmbrotheUmbreon
So, who wants to aid a veteran Simic player in making his commander more degenerate than she already is? Wanna help me push my friend's over the edge with salt? Awesome, cause I need to add three more cards to my deck and I am just up in the air with what would be good to throw in.
The theme is Card Draw and Ramp, the goal is control the board while ramping to combo out for a win. Price tags are of no concern to me and I'm looking for the most brutal and ruthless cards to destroy my foes.
PookandPie says... #3
You want it degenerate?
Okay, run Misthollow Griffin and/or Eternal Scourge, and Food Chain.
Either of those creatures + Food Chain is infinite mana for creature spells, and then you can cast Zegana, exile her, re-cast her, exile her, etc., until you draw your whole library (stop short of drawing out, obviously). Cast Laboratory Maniac, and then exile/re-cast Zegana again to win.
To adequately protect this combo, I'd recommend reducing the average costs of your counter spells and protection so you can have them available to cast before setting in on this loop (because Lab Man getting destroyed/exiled with the last draw trigger on the stack is extremely bad). Recommendations are: Swan Song (it counters almost everything that messes up this combo basically), Flusterstorm, Negate, even Pact of Negation could be a good idea.
Long-Term Plans would be a great way to find Food Chain.
April 10, 2018 12:51 a.m.
Raysracing says... #4
Is it normal to not "see" how these combos interact as a new player? I keep readnng the cards and dont see these infinite loops happen sometimes. I see some, but not how this: "Okay, run Misthollow Griffin and/or Eternal Scourge, and Food Chain. Either of those creatures + Food Chain is infinite mana for creature spells, and then you can cast Zegana, exile her, re-cast her, exile her, etc., until you draw your whole library (stop short of drawing out, obviously)."
What line states that it goes in a loop? Thanks for helping a newb and sorry for hijacking this thread.
April 18, 2018 8:18 a.m.
PookandPie says... #5
You can cast Misthollow Griffin from exile, and Food Chain let's you exile a creature and make X + 1 mana, where X is that creature's casting cost. So you play the Griffin, exile it, get enough Mana to cast it from exile + 1 extra, and then you re-cast it and do it again gaining extra mana each time.
Do that a few million times generating blue mana, and then spend the blue re-casting the Griffin and exiling it for green mana.
Then, when you have as much mana as you want, you cast Zegana and exile her. You'll draw at least 2 or 5 cards each iteration. You choose to put Zegana back into the command zone as a replacement effect for exiling her, which let's you re-cast her and draw more cards.
That make it more clear?
April 18, 2018 11:36 a.m.
Raysracing says... #6
IN bits and pieces I'm getting it. You first get blue mana to recast Griffin which gets you green, which gets cards in your hand. Then the winning blow at the end.
Thanks for taking the time to explain it!
April 18, 2018 12:51 p.m.
Deadeye Navigator is great with Zegana. Stormsurge Kraken and Gigapede are nice too, because they come out a turn before Zegana, give a lot of cards with her, and are hard to remove. Adding Great Whale and Palinchron gives you a way to make infinite mana and draw your deck with Deadeye as well.
Big, high CMC creatures are totally unnecessary. Zegana works much better with bounce/blink effects to draw more cards for less mana, through spells like Ghostly Flicker, Displace, and Illusionist's Stratagem. Since you want to win through combo anyway, there's no reason to have Eldrazi titans, Ghalta, or Myojin in the deck. Those flicker spells also combo with Great Whale/Palinchron and Eternal Witness/Archaeomancer to make infinite mana.
Your countermagic has really high mana costs. In my opinion, Miscalculation, Mana Leak, Spell Pierce, Arcane Denial, and Memory Lapse should all be used before any 3 mana counterspells. That being said, Forbid is super gross with Zegana as your commander. Also, Scour from Existence is terrible.
Chord of Calling, Worldly Tutor, and Green Sun's Zenith would all improve consistency. Woodland Bellower and Fierce Empath can help get you to your first big creature.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #2
It also wrecks me if I don't have Seedborn Muse out.
April 9, 2018 9:40 p.m.