What Happened to the Talent that Produced the DCAU?
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on May 19, 2020, 2:10 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
DC is having trouble with their own cinematic universe, in their attempt to compete with Marvel, but, after several films that were poorly received, they finally seem to have discovered the key to making great films.
However, I wonder why they ever had difficulty in making the DCCU, at all, since they already have experience with building shared universes; back in the 1990's and early 2000's, DC had the DC animated universe, (DCAU), a universe comprised of several animated television series that were interconnected. That series was amazingly well-written, with great storylines and well-developed characters (in my opinion, the definitive versions of those characters), so it baffles me that DC could somehow fall from the heights of that universe to the depths of their cinematic universe.
What does everyone else say about this? What happened to the talent that produced the DCAU?
The DC Cinematic Universes problem wasn't bad stories, it was rushed storytelling. They were playing catch up, trying to do in 3 movies what Marvel did in 6. Same pitfall as the Dark Universe, the absolute distillation of why supercompressed extended storytelling can't work. You're pulling at too many threads that you don't have enough fingers to tie any of them.
Whether or not DCs movies at the start of their Cinematic Universe were, in a vacuum, bad stories is up for debate. I would choose to believe that the stories they were telling were and could have been fine, but that the film's were trying to tell other stories too, before they were ready to.
Marvel broke ground and found an oil that no one knew was there, and they tapped that reserve carefully. Slowly. Before anyone even fully realized where they were taking it. Now that the secret's out, everyone thinks that they can collect and distribute that same oil faster and get the same result, but not only is that foolhardy, it ignores the fact that the first and biggest supplier is still in the game.
As long as Marvel and the MCU is around, there just isn't going to be a Cinematic Universe as successful. The public already has their supplier. When that barrel runs dry, then someone else can try to satisfy us, if they don't set the factory on fire in their haste.
May 19, 2020 4:01 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #4
kanokarob, that is what I dislike about the situation: Marvel has no strong competition in that area, which is not good for the consumers. Competition is good for the consumers, so I am really hoping that some other company can make a shared universe that is successful, as well.
May 19, 2020 5 p.m.
Right now, the consumers are saying they don't want competition. When the trend starts to go the other way, a competitor will emerge organically. You can force it. Supply meets demand, not the other way around.
May 20, 2020 12:01 a.m.
There is one other franchise that could produce a shared universe to rival Marvel--Star Wars. Sure, the entire new trilogy was poorly-written, but Rogue One was solid, the Mandalorian and the new season of Clone Wars were both excellent, I personally think Solo was enjoyable, and there is a whole lot of projects in the works with great potential.
But, like Marvel, Star Wars also started out with a base then expanded beyond that (both the old Legends and the new cinematic/silver screen universe they're building now.
Now, they'll both be Disney franchises--since Disney seems to be the only one who actually know you have to walk before you can run (a lesson even they had to learn after the trilogy-Rogue One-Solo release schedule was too aggressive). Until others learn that Disney's success lies in its long-term-plans, not its ability to make blockbusters, we're not likely to see any realistic competition to the House of Mouse.
May 20, 2020 12:15 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #7
kanokarob, the first wave of the MCU (Iron Man through The Avengers) was awesome, because those were the films that established the universe, but, after that, Marvel seemed to fall into a comfortable formula, with many of their films feeling very similar to each other. Obviously, some of the following films were still excellent, such as Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame, all of which hugely altered the universe, but most of them were hardly groundbreaking (Ant Man felt too similar to Iron Man and both Homecoming and Far from Home were fairly forgettable, to me).
TypicalTimmy, again, the DCAU did an amazing job of portraying the characters as multifaceted and complex, with their own distinct personalities and psychological issues, with storylines and conflicts that were able to challenge them in ways that felt believable, so, if that universe could do it, there is no reason to think that the DCCU cannot do it, as well.
May 20, 2020 12:33 p.m.
TypicalTimmy - I agree with all your points, but take some issue with your conclusion. DC’s characters might make it harder to make a successful franchise, but they don’t make the franchise “unfilmable”.
Christopher Reeve’s first two Superman movies were strong - but both were not just focused on Superman as Superman, they also looked into Clark Kent, the man with the powers of a god, but tempered by an idealised version of Midwest morality. The DCCU ignored what makes Clark Kent interesting, giving him a Pa Kent who didn’t teach the morality central to his character.
Batman has had a number of very successful film appearances. The 60s TV show is glorious in its campiness, leaning into the ridiculousness of Batman’s man-as-vat and absurd rogues gallery. The Tim Burton films struck a nice balance between dark and camp. The Nolan films were dark and focused on “realism”, but they were overall optimistic, and focused more on Bruce Wayne than they did on Batman.
I have not seen any of the DCCU movies involving Batman, so I can’t say what they did wrong there.
Wonder Woman had a fun, campy show that was quite successful and popular. The new movie basically copied Captain America: The First Avenger, but replaced the “fun action” that characterises the MCU with DC’s “gritty realism” (and generally bad writing/direction).
All that’s to say, DC’s characters can be done in live action, and can be relatable through a campy humour (which Marvel leans strongly into) or by being a character study on the alter ego, with the superhero just being one facet of that.
Right now, we have a franchise born from Nolan’s trilogy, but the wrong aspects of Nolan’s trilogy. Nolan was successful not because of his dark realism - but because he used dark realism as a stylistic tool for looking at very human characters.
The DCCU has leaned too far into the dark realism to try and distinguish itself from Marvel - completely ignoring that dark realism, in and of itself, isn’t actually a story, it’s a stylistic choice with which one can tell stories.
I think there is a further problem that crossover films are inherently silly, not meshing well with dark realism. Not saying it can’t be done - good writing can surmount difficulties - just that it can’t be done with the mediocrity of the DCCU’s current writing and directing teams.
May 20, 2020 1:16 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #9
At this point, how likely is it that there shall be another Justice League film? I know that the first one was not well-received, but, surely, DC shall not abandon their flagship team in their cinematic universe?
May 20, 2020 5:08 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #10
Can you imagine if Bruce Timm and Paul Dini had control over the DCCU in the same way that Kevin Feige had control over the MCU? Can you imagine how awesome it would be, in such a situation?
shadow63 says... #2
That was 20-30 years ago. They might of moved onto other companies or retired or passed away. Also making small tenuous connections between tv episodes and making a cohesive movie universe is vastly different I would imagine
May 19, 2020 2:50 p.m.