Pewds controversy
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on Oct. 1, 2020, 12:57 p.m. by I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks
SO I know this was a while ago but what does everyone think about this and would you want him to return to MTG?
RiotRunner789 says... #4
Ah. Didn't realize he played magic or made mtg content. But, no. We don't need a new racist content creator.
October 1, 2020 1:16 p.m.
tacolover25 says... #5
Didn't even know he played. What exactly is the controversy?
October 1, 2020 2:18 p.m.
I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks says... #6
Ok im not gonna delve into this but people got annoyed at him for saying(And I never saw this myself) anti-Semitic or racist stuff. Honestly I think it was blown way out of proportion. But so basically when he played magic a bunch of people including but not listed to content creators, got super pissed and basically told him to stay the f*ck away from our game. I don't know the whole story but I just wanted to know if people thought the people who told him to go away were justified or not.
October 1, 2020 2:48 p.m.
I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks I don't know that anything was blown out of proportion here. He definitely dropped racial slurs live on stream. People need to make the decision what that means for them on their own.
To speak to your actual question though, I would say nobody should tell anyone they can or cannot play this game. Gatekeeping sucks in every facet. If he was told to stay away from trying to be a part of the online MtG streaming community I would probably side with that though. Like it or not, his reputation is what it is by his own doing. I'm not certain he is the best brand ambassador for bringing new people to the game. I will also freely state that I don't know every MtG streamer or their views, so there could be plenty of them out there that I also thinking shouldn't be ambassadors for the game. The question wasn't about them though, but one particular popular streamer who I think would be a poor representative for MtG.
October 1, 2020 3 p.m.
tacolover25 says... #9
People care to much about what others think. That's the problem with the world today. I agree he shouldn't have said what he said, but ultimately it's Felix's decision whether or not to continue playing magic.
Thanks for the information. Never know what you're going to read on the internet lol.
October 1, 2020 3:44 p.m. Edited.
RNR_Gaming says... #10
People were actually outraged by this? I guess I'm out of the loop again. Other than just writing angry tweets or mean comments what would anyone do if he decided to just go ahead and do it? He'd be the undisputed #1 subscribed magic content creator the day he started; pretty sure his video of him playing magic is 1 of the most viewed, if not thr most viewed MTG video. People can hold different values and still be a valuable and good part of the community - how they actually participate in a game, in person matters more to me than some crap they said on the internet.
October 1, 2020 10:17 p.m.
DragonSliver9001 says... #11
RNR_Gaming i'd say that racism goes way beyond "different values". i'd really like to think that a known racist would not be a #1 content creator. when the "crap" someone says on the internet is racist, that matters way more than how they conduct themselves during the game.
October 1, 2020 11:47 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #12
I think the term racist has been getting thrown around a bit too hastily lately. Most often especially in European gaming communities/severs/discord players through put derogatory words left and right in an attempt to be edgey. Is it okay or right to do this? No. But it's not stemming from hate more so from immaturity and attention seeking. - now if pewds does hate someone for the color of their skin/sexual orientation/religion and harrasses, hurts or acts violently in a way towards an individual because of those feelings that's when he should be banned and barred.
October 2, 2020 2:15 a.m.
Pewdiepie is cool and if he played Magic often, I would watch him.
October 2, 2020 2:24 a.m.
I don't like talking about politics, religion or things like this online, but I personally believe allowing the language is allowing the hate.
If you know what you say is a slur, slight, insult or derogatory to anyone, grow the heck up and don't do it.
Nobody's perfect and we all make mistakes but being mature means you learn from them and grow into a better you. You don't defend bad behavior.
Don't support and spread hate, Walk the Talk.
October 2, 2020 2:54 a.m.
Being racist in video games is psychological warfare is the worst take I have heard and you need a long look at yourself and your values.
October 2, 2020 3:35 a.m.
Think for a second about what you are saying. You are justifying it as something that is acceptable to happen or a reasonable tactic in a VIDEO GAME to be racist because it might upset someone. Like...really just sit with that and think about the implications. Think what you are justifying as acceptable behaviour in a low stakes game.
Also consider how competative events treat behaviour like that now if you are trying to justify it as a tactic. What is the tactical value of a banning?
The fact you are so normalised to it is disgusting and if you feel its a tactic means I hope I never play a game versus you as you might start whipping out slurs to throw me off.
October 2, 2020 3:54 a.m. Edited.
I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks says... #17
@Leaplath, TypicalTimmy was explaining why he thinks it wasn't a big deal. I started this thread because I wanted to hear opinions, and so far you haven't given an opinion and have just gotten angry at typicaltimmmy for stating his. So please if you don't have something meaningful to contribute, don't.
October 2, 2020 6:54 a.m.
I say he should start playing again. I've only ever watched a few of his videos and didn't really care for them. But he is/was the highest subscribed youtube channel. He would bring so many eyes and so much attention to the game we all enjoy and more players is generally a good thing
October 2, 2020 10:14 a.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #19
An online gaming environment is much different than an lgs/paper tournment setting. Now, if he said something derogatory during a game depending on what slur was used he would get a minimum of a game loss; if the T.O/store owner thought he crossed a line they could disqualify and ban him from the store. However, they cannot just ban him/dq him from a game for bad actions that happened outside of the store; that would be asinine. There are a lot of people I disagree with that go to my lgs but they've done nothing to me when they interact with me at the store or during games.
October 2, 2020 11:50 a.m.
RiotRunner789 says... #20
RNR_Gaming: WOTC could ban him from all sanctioned events if it wanted to. I don't believe it has ever done so to a player for actions outside/unrelated to the game. It has however, banned two artists for actions outside the game and I do not believe it is much of a stretch that it could be done to a player.
Though, personally, I think WOTC would only do that if they believed not banning said individual would cost them money. Same as how YouTube doesn't care as long as the advertising dollars keep rolling in.
October 2, 2020 1:41 p.m.
RNR_Gaming would it be asinine though? Let's say you own your own LGS with a very loyal customer base. Maybe you start hosting FNMs and tournaments for your players, and you become known as a place where there is always the chance of a fun game or group of people to play with. Maybe you reach out to the other area LGS' as a way to cross-promote. Through your contacts at these LGS' you hear of a player they've had to ask not to come back because he consistently uses derogatory or hateful language when playing the game. Maybe he uses this for a "competitive advantage" as suggested earlier in this thread and doesn't even really mean what he's saying. However it was causing those other LGS' to lose their normal customer base because they decided they didn't want to play around this particular person. So they informed him he would be banned from future events. Would you really think it so asinine to preemptively ban him from your store to avoid any potential issues with your current loyal player base?
Granted that is not really what was being asked here, but if you want to stretch it to try and cover the scenario in question let's do so. Let's say PewdiePie starts streaming MtG and brings all the attention his massive following has to the game. Let's say even 1% of his followers follow him because they know that once upon a time he dropped some racial slurs in some streams. Let's say they start playing and/or streaming magic and are free with their thoughts and feelings in regards to using that language or spouting some pretty crappy ideas. Is that the ambassador for this game that you want? Pewdie loses a game during stream, drops another N-bomb, and the headlines read "Magic the Gathering player, PwediePie, uses another racial slur". Is that representative of MtG players as a whole? Because that's how it will be viewed with him tied to the game in that way.
Lastly, like you, I have played Magic in person with a number of people whose thoughts and viewpoints I disagreed with. Maybe even people who feel its ok to use hate speech as a way to knock someone off their game. Also like you, I've never had any issue with anyone saying anything to me or doing anything negative to me at a store or during games. I can't just expect everyone's experience matches mine though. I'm 6'3" and 280 lbs. No one says anything to me ever, about anything. It's just a factor of having the genes I do. Plenty of people don't have that same blessing so I can't just look at a situation from my own perspective and not consider how it may affect others. Anecdotal evidence is evidence in name only, and it doesn't do anything to consider how the other gamers at your table may be treated by the same people you have no issues with.
October 2, 2020 1:52 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #22
RiotRunner789 - this is very true. They could ban him if they desired but it sets a very bad standard. Banning someone or punishing someone for something that happened outside of an LGS or outside of a sanctioned event is silly. BUT they have done it. The guy from the quarting got banned for harassing a cosplayer/his fan base harassing a cosplayer. There was a guy who won a tournment on MODO who got his winnings retracted due to a sexual assault charge he already servered his time for (not saying this action is okay in the slightest but the event didn't happen at an event or an lgs. Lastly, with the whole Noah bradly thing he admitted to harassing people at EVENTS and in the Workplace using his status/platform to pressure people into "things" wizards was definitely right to get rid of him.
I do agree with you about greed of companies 100% but with his platform he has enough influence to bolster their sales a good bit.
October 2, 2020 2:47 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #23
FSims81 - Yes it's still asinine. So, first and foremost situations like that are a teaching moment. Just banning someone for upsportsman like behavior/derogatory language does nothing to rehabilitate that person or allow them to make amends for their actions. They'd receive a game loss and a lecture. If their attitude persisted they would get a temporary ban until they apologized to everyone they offended. If they repeated the action they would be permanently banned from my shop. I'm a firm believer in secound chances and if I knew about them ahead of time they'd receive a warning upon entering my shop - innocent until found guilty.
Pewds isn't responsible for the words or actions of his fans. Additionally, toxic elements like racists, chomos and sex offenders already exist within the community. Magic is played by all walks of life and has been around for many years I highly doubt when people think of magic they'll all just think of an angry swedish guy who drops an N-bomb when he gets salty.
Also, I do agree with your last point - but other people's happiness and gaming experience isn't my responsibility; its ultimately up to them to speak up. Though if I did hear something derogatory or mean spirited I would call the person out on it and see if we could take corrected steps to mitigate any further damage or outbursts.
October 2, 2020 3:25 p.m.
RNR_Gaming I disagree wholeheartedly with everything you just wrote but I understand that everyone has their own view of things and in this instance I don't see me changing yours even a little.
I mentioned earlier that I don't know the thoughts or actions of most of the creators, streamers, or just players of magic. I'd like for those that would bring an unfavorable light on the game to all stay away from being ambassadors, but we aren't talking about every player. We're only talking about PewdiePie and him specifically (possibly) being told to stay away from the game as a streamer. In that regard, I think his past actions make him a poor "face" for the game and I think with his following it would bring people into thinking the Magic community is ok with those past actions for supporting him if he did decide to stream MtG. I do also think it is the responsibility of these streamers when their words or actions may lead to their fans behaving in a certain way or to attracting a certain type of person as a fan. He has a level of influence on people that some are discussing as potentially good for bringing eyes to the game, but to absolve him of responsibility if any of them are being a-holes doesn't work in my eyes.
I don't think anyone's happiness or gaming experience is my responsibility either but I sure want them to have the best experience or highest level of happiness possible nonetheless. In a case like this I'd rather be proactive rather than reactive. Just seems like it's better to avoid the possible hurt than to allow it to happen and then deal with it afterwards.
I appreciate the conversation though and I hope you have a great weekend.
October 2, 2020 3:53 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #25
My issue with proactive steps is misinformation. If there's visual evidence or video evidence there's no issue with action being taken but if it's just hearsay I take issue with such a heavy handed approach but can understand the sentiment of wanting to protect players. Additionally, just banning someone is a bandaid to a much larger systemic problem - and open dialog with people is the only way forward in my eyes.
I enjoyed this civil discussion hope your weekend is good too.
October 2, 2020 4:08 p.m.
Colonel_Kink says... #26
pewdiepie is not racist. i had no idea some of these users were so ignorant and into cancel culture :(
RiotRunner789 says... #2
Who?
October 1, 2020 1:03 p.m.