Are Children’s Media Today More or Less Edgy and Daring than They Were Years Ago?
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on Aug. 31, 2020, 6:45 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Now that people of my generation are in or approaching their thirties (with some almost in their forties), I have been seeing an increasing number of them lamenting that movies and television series intended for children are too tame or less avant garde than were children’s media when we were younger. For example, the 2019 Addams Family film was nowhere near as dark and as edgy as was the 1991 film and its 1993 sequel, and some people have said that shows such as Ren and Stimpy, Rocko’s Modern Life, and Courage: the Cowardly Dog, series that were known for their freakishly bizarre art styles and outlandish plots and characters, would never be made today. Also, there has never been a film like the 1981 Heavy Metal film made in recent years (its 2000 sequel was enjoyable, but did not push boundaries as much as did the original).
I am inclined to agree with those people, because recent series do not cause me to feel the same emotional response as the series that I watched during my childhood, but that may be a result of nostalgia and a fondness for my formative years. After all, is it not natural for media to push boundaries and explore new ideas as time passes? The reboots of He-Man, Thundercats, Voltron, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in the early 2000’s were all much more dark and serious than were the original series in the 1980’s, and original series, such as Avatar: the Last Airbender and its sequel, Legend of Korra, could never have been made before the 2000’s; in fact, the only series from before the year 2000 that I have seen that were dark and serious were Gargoyles and Batman: the Animated Series, but there have been plenty of series since the year 2000 that have had very serious stories.
To be certain, my favorite television series will always be those from my childhood, but I shall not discount newer series without giving them a chance, and not presume that they are automatically inferior to those from years ago.
What does everyone else say about this? Are recent children’s movies and television series more or less daring and edgy than those from years ago (i.e., the 1980’s and 1990’s)?
I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks says... #3
I def agree with @DeinoStinkus's point about gravity falls, i love that show and the intro if friggin fire. I also fell like a couple clone wars episodes have been daring especially the one where darth maul and savage opress talk about the only way to get the jedi to come "Mercilessly slaughtering the innocent.."
August 31, 2020 7:31 p.m.
Chromium_Overseer says... #4
No matter what, the parent always die in the Disney movie. That hasn't changed, at least.
August 31, 2020 7:43 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #5
smackjack FYI your first link is 'The Land Before Time'.
August 31, 2020 7:43 p.m.
I don't think it's a scale. I think it's more like a compass chart. Stuff like homosexuality would of been totally taboo during the 90s and early 2000s now it's just a normal subject for cartoons. Bugs bunny cross dressed all the time. I'm not sure if that would fly now
August 31, 2020 10:21 p.m.
Flooremoji says... #7
Damn, I think I saw one episode of Courage, the cowardly dog when I was little.
Freaked me out good! I still remember it... somthing about spiders climbing out of the shower? XD
August 31, 2020 10:36 p.m.
Quicksilver says... #8
Star vs. The Forces of Evil had all sorts of dark jokes. Marco crossdressed as Princess Turdina to infiltrate a school for Wayward Princesses. I'm happier for the modern state of cartoons than lamenting about the old days. There was plenty of garbage back then too.
September 1, 2020 1:24 a.m.
I think media and media pushed agendas have a lot to do with it as the years go on people have realized more and more that they can influence the next generation of voters with cartoons, so where as kids we got cartoons straight from cartoon makers, many children's shows are subsidized by government programs to force certain agendas (a good example is through the 90s and early 2000s shows were given large subsidies for forcing anti drug messages, hence why you saw it so often not cause anyone gave a crap) another large part is now it's been so monetized most shows go through a highly P.C. board of executives that are more afraid of lawsuits than of making crummy t.v. since it's all for the add money anyways, one of my favorite classic examples is an old bug's bunny cartoon where bugs is trying to play the piano at a concert and a rowdy audience member keeps interrupting him, well after about the 4th or 5th time he pulls out a revolver and unloads into the crowd, let's out a sigh of relief then plays his song, no chance they would let that on tv nowadays, everyone would be to afraid of looking like they were advocating violence to laugh at a good joke, a bit of a divergence buy I think thats when you get into real trouble is teaching kids that's cartoons are a reflection of real life not a satire and have to be p.c. causing a false sense of reality, but I digress, anywho you mentioned "ren and stimpy" one of my favorite cartoons as a kid, yet nowadays I'm not sure a single episode would get aired and that is sad to me, lastly also kind of a divergence but still on the topic, if you notice most shows nowadays geared for children are about children who are the boss of their elders or are some way smarter that their elders and outwit them at every turn, kinda obnoxious as a parent lol. Anywho thanks for the chance to ramble and rant about this this issue is kinda a hot button for me :)
September 1, 2020 5:19 a.m.
DemonDragonJ Also I do have to add, have you never heard of 'Akira' 'ninja scrolls' 'trigun' or 'cowboy bebop'? all shows an movie's before the 2000s that were very serious and emotionally provocative, so I do have to disagree with that half of it ;)
September 1, 2020 6:41 a.m.
Vash13 think DDJ is talking about American animation.
September 1, 2020 7:34 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
Vash13, I was referring to media aimed primarily at younger audiences, whereas all of those series that you mentioned are intended for older audiences.
September 1, 2020 7:51 a.m.
DemonDragonJ ok fair enough, I just started watching that stuff when I was like 10 so I forget some times :)
September 1, 2020 2:48 p.m.
I feel like Invader Zim should get a shoutout here. Over the Garden Wall also kind of scratches that same itch, but that one isn't nearly as mainstream.
I feel like the reason things are as tame now is children's media became more profitable and thus a need to corporatize the industry with focus groups and to produce content that would appeal to as much people as possible while being void of substance at the same time is what has plagued it. The sequels to Despicable Me, Boss Baby and the Emoji movie come to mind.
Of course other people could chalk it up to political correctness being the blame for it, but I disagree as I feel pc-culture is not nearly as influential as some people make it out to be.
I like to sink my attention into anime instead these days and while some might say anime isn't for children you'd be surprised how many kids these days have at least have heard of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure or My Hero Academia. Let's not forget Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon played prominent parts in children's media too. Yu-Gi-Oh definitely had its darker themes especially if you're watching the version that wasn't butchered by 4Kids. Anime of course has its own assortment of problems, but I find that it better aligns with more of my own interests than other content available.
Lastly let's not forget children's cartoons are no longer limited to the television alone. A lot of "indie" cartoons can now be found online that totally fill in the niche that tv wouldn't dare to run. Salad Fingers, Happy Tree Friends and Charlie the Unicorn come to mind, but I'm sure there's much newer content that meets up to the moment of today and I think an increasing number of kids also get their content from the internet as if it were a second television platform and that trend will only go up with time. Though it should be noted that not even internet medium is immune from bad content. If you're looking for dark content I can assure you typing up "Elsa Spiderman Pregnant" will yield you with plenty of horrifying content, not any of it all the more desirable however.
September 1, 2020 3:10 p.m.
As a librarian who primarily works with children and teenagers, I can tell you that they're a lot of the same f@cked up stuff we got, just through less official mediums (youtube etc.).
I definitely agree that a lot of our classics wouldn't get made by cartoon network or nickelodeon today, but their ilk isn't gone.
StopShot's point about squeezing more money, and further corporatization of the animated medium is likely to blame.
September 1, 2020 4:03 p.m.
Wow I can't write today...
"I can tell you that they're getting a lot of the same..."
September 1, 2020 4:04 p.m.
DeinoStinkus Rocko's Modern Life has Rachel Bighead, if anime is to be included Yu Yu Hakusho has Miyuki (there's actually several trans anime characters).
Unfortunately the existence of transgender people has only recently started to become more publicly mainstream, so it's going to take time for non-caricature characters to become more prevalent.
September 1, 2020 4:18 p.m.
DeinoStinkus in the end the parents usually end up being the worst offenders about stuff like the "Momo Challenge." They take everything far too literally and don't listen to the kids themselves.
September 1, 2020 4:21 p.m.
sparklepants says... #19
DeinoStinkus The new rocko modern life episode had a character who was trans. I forgot her name.
Vash13 You have a really good point. I've been noticing that people have increasingly been unable to distinguish reality in recent years. It concerned me throughout the Obama years to much larger extent than it does now. I guess I've become numb to the constant gaslighting and bickering that has gone on about every single issue that could ever become an issue. Reality has been a partisan issue for a long time now and we are starting to see the effects of that on the general populous. As generations pass, we will inevitably all be driven to the brink of insanity by mere exposure to opposing discourse.
September 1, 2020 4:23 p.m.
sparklepants says... #20
DeinoStinkus It is a hoax though. There is no one doing anything there. the momo challenge literally never existed.
September 1, 2020 4:32 p.m.
So first up. Influences have changed. The "dark" or "gross out" cartoons in the vein of Ren and Stimpy and stuff are no longer the influences. Like you can see a lot of lines running from Ren and Stimpy into powerpuff girls and dexters lab and all that.
Then they moved from syndicated must be able to be viewed in any order to being able to have a story that followed through. Before cartoons had to reset to the status quo. Every episode had to begin and end with no lessons learnt, no growth, no change. Now cartoons can have a meta plot and changes from episode to episode.
And with this and the growing and better understanding of kids the themes changed. The darkness became stuff like abusive pasts and trauma than outright murder. For example in She-Ra you get to see two deeply trauamtised characters who grew up with an abusive parent they have very complicated feelings about and how each of them respond to that as well as how they respond when one of them is given a chance to leave. Or Steven Universe having an entire season of him undergoing and starting to recover from PTSD because of all the times he almost died or was seriously hurt ranging from the early episode comedy like him turning into cats to the later season war against interstellar dictators.
Also a trans woman I can weigh in on the trans stuff. Rep in cartoons is few and far between. And getting better. But also there are issues about not using trans people for trans roles. This can further stereotypes and deny trans people roles. And there is also a discussion about should we let cis people tell our stories and see it as good rep or look more to the queer community for this.
Also a trans character in a cartoon doesnt make up for the behaviour of a lot of companies regarding trans people.
Final note. I would like to see less cartoons turned into live action. In a cartoon you have total control over the world unbound by CGI or what actors can do or lighting etc and do some beautiful things. Let a cartoon be a cartoon. It doesnt need to be remade into a terrible live action movie.
September 1, 2020 5:10 p.m.
DeinoStinkus I think convincing kids they need hardcore invasive cosmetic surgery to be proud of who they are isn't a good message, it would be the same as having children shows with characters that have had breast enlargement or penis augmentation...and Massacar those characters are not trans in the way we think of it in modern terms, they were androgynous demi gods who didn't recognize sex, because they dont have sex...anywho sry I know that's not what this thread was about just had to clear that up :)
September 1, 2020 7:47 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #23
DeinoStinkus, does Ranma Saotome from Ranma 1/2 qualify as transsexual?
September 1, 2020 8:21 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #24
DeinoStinkus, Ranma 1/2 is a shonen manga series written by Rumiko Takahashi, the same author of Inuyasha; it is primary comedic, with some martial arts action, akin to early Dragon Ball.
Ranma Saotome, the main character, was born male, but suffers from a curse that causes him to transform into a female whenever he touches cold water, with hot water being able to revert him to his original form. Naturally, that ability causes many humorous hijinks as the series progresses, and Ranma wishes to be rid of it, but he is not above exploiting it when he feels that doing so would be advantageous.
Several other characters have similar curses that curse them to transform into various forms when they are touched by water of different temperatures, as well, which, again, is used primarily for comedic effect.
The series is one of the earliest series to explore the idea of an "unwanted harem" that has now become an entire genre of its own. I have read the entire manga, but I have not seen the anime, and I likely have no plans to do so, since it was fairly entertaining, but not sufficiently serious for my liking.
September 1, 2020 8:50 p.m.
Wow. They just keep getting worse and worse.
And DemonDragonJ Ranma 1/2 is/was a popular anime among trans people for a while but the character isnt trans if you get me? But kinda is? His goal is to keep his male presenting body and he feels uncomfortable in the female one in a way that could be seen as gender dysphoria. But a trans narrative isnt a very intresting take on Ranma tbh cause its so obvious
September 2, 2020 12:59 a.m.
Wow. They just keep getting worse and worse.
And DemonDragonJ Ranma 1/2 is/was a popular anime among trans people for a while but the character isnt trans if you get me? But kinda is? His goal is to keep his male presenting body and he feels uncomfortable in the female one in a way that could be seen as gender dysphoria. But a trans narrative isnt a very intresting take on Ranma tbh cause its so obvious
smackjack says... #2
Man at least todays cartoons arent close to as sad as they used to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpeSpk2qbnY&t=1s (Swedish, sorry, dont know the english title. I cry my eyes out when i see this even tho om 32).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-8MbgMS6jo&t=19s (poor little dumbo, i cried all night when i was a kid and saw this)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Irg8xn4bg (ive seen lion king over 100 times for sure. This scene ive seen less than 5 times. Always fast forwared.. it kills me)
August 31, 2020 7:17 p.m.