Paradox Scepter Storm: cEDH Primer

Commander / EDH* Lilbrudder

SCORE: 107 | 225 COMMENTS | 44154 VIEWS | IN 57 FOLDERS


Turn 2 kill deck —March 21, 2017


Yawgmoth's Engine

Commander / EDH* Lilbrudder

SCORE: 23 | 19 COMMENTS | 3197 VIEWS | IN 14 FOLDERS


This is my current list. After extensive tweaking and testing I have discovered that I can now win on turn 2 approximately one out every seven games and by turn 3 slightly more than half the time. A description of why and how this is possible is included on the decklist.

Lilbrudder says... #1

Frank_Glascock: Its the cEDH reddit tourney and its ongoing. I am not the pilot actually. I was watching BarbeChenue playing an adjusted version of my list and he (?) won last night in epic fashion. Basically his card choices and his theft of Linvala, Keeper of Silence with grasp bought him the time needed to fight through multiple stax pieces to win the game. That was merely one of many huge plays and aside from one gaffe early :-), his performance was a thing of beauty. After seeing his card choices in action I am planning on adjusting the list accordingly.

Carpet is great. I didnt use it because it doesnt tap for value, but linvala and null rod are things so a more varied ramp package is nice.

I hear you Daedalus19876, but as Dunadain pointed out the main phase ad nauseam is a fragile thing. It often doesn't work if your cc is in the 1.7s. Also counterspells are somewhat meh for this build it wasnt a super hard cut.

February 25, 2017 2:58 a.m.

Frank_Glascock says... #2

Lilbrudder, you stated that you eliminated additional means to victory in favor of streamlining the deck. Now you have one in Aetherflux Reservoir with Praetor's Grasp being a pseudo and less consistent means to victory. Yet you state:
"I used to run more backup win conditions and think this is wise once your meta understands what you are doing most games, but to fully streamline the deck those options have been cut. Good backup win conditions include Grapeshot; Reality Shift ; and Walking Ballista."

What card would you remove to be replaced with one of the three additional wincons? This is relevant as many of us will be playing this deck at a store or online with a somewhat consistent group.

February 25, 2017 3:43 p.m.

Lilbrudder says... #3

Probably Candelabra of Tawnos since it is just color fixing or Urza's Bauble/Everflowing Chalice since they are fairly low impact.

Of the three grapeshot is a better removal spell outside the finisher role but ballista can be a free untap and is better off ad naus. Reality shift is too dependent on opponents having a creature unless you keep candelabra and untap the forbidden orchard you put into play with Thrasios' ability

February 25, 2017 3:53 p.m. Edited.

Lilbrudder says... #4

What I meant say grapeshot is better than ballista as a removal spell. Reality shift is the best removal spell

February 25, 2017 4:03 p.m.

trancer99 says... #5

Which is the better Thrasios deck against massive counter magic?

February 26, 2017 10:27 p.m.

Lilbrudder says... #6

I would say its a toss up. If you have multiple opponents tryingn to disrupt you then go white (silence), but red has better tools to deal with blue (pyroblast). If you need additional counter protection, Force of will, spell pierce, dispel, unsubstantiate, and red elemental blast are all solid options

February 27, 2017 6:27 a.m. Edited.

trancer99 says... #7

The last few nights I have run into a lot, almost ready to just play Prossh with all blue hate.

February 27, 2017 3:46 p.m.

marsthesoos says... #8

This deck looks sweet, might just be the shell for my next combo deck!

February 28, 2017 8:49 a.m.

Frank_Glascock says... #9

Lilbrudder, am I correct that the only graveyard hate (pseudo in this case) in the deck is Deathrite Shaman? Has this been an issue? If your meta has either a Karador/Boonweaver or Hermit Druid (seeing some 4 color builds lately) build, what would you advise? I am assuming Everflowing Chalice would be the cut and Tormod's Crypt would be the addition.

March 1, 2017 10:15 p.m.

Lilbrudder says... #10

I try to make my online decks meta free, so specific hate cards are almost never included. If you were to add some gravehate tormod's crypt would be an ideal inclusion. Another solid option is Shred Memory as it can double as a tutor for dramatic scepter.

March 1, 2017 10:26 p.m.

BarbeChenue says... #11

The game Lilbrudder mentionned is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/124305547

The mistake he mentions is a severe tilt/brainfart on my part, in which I forgot to cast Chain of Vapor before the End Step, with an active Jin Gitaxias in play, as well as a Null Rod and an Eidolon of Silence.

The game is a bit long (1h40+), but is well worth the watch.

--

As far as changes to the deck are mentioned, I have to keep my own tournament list intact until the end (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/paradox-scepter-storm/), since no changes are allowed after registration. I'm still closely watching Lilbrudder's changes.

I like the idea of playing Everflowing Chalice in place of Urza's Bauble. My problem with both Mishra and Urza's baubles are that they draw the card the turn after, which is only good if you drop them on the turns before going off. The problem is that you also want them in your hand when you play Paradox Engine, play them for 0 to untap your rocks, and go off the same turn. I also found I wanted more 'Sol Rings' in the deck to go with Isochron Scepter (which requires at least 2+ mana to go off). Everflowing Chalice is just as good as the baubles on combo turn (since you are never going to draw that card), but can help setup the win as well.

I'm of the opinion that more wheels is really good, even at 4 CMC, so Whispering Madness is really a card I like in principle. IMHO, card draw + discard adds consistency, fill the grave, and acts as a pseudo-tutor for solutions. I just don't know what to cut for it, since I also want Candelabra and Lim-Dl's Vault, and I've already cut Llanowar and Urborg. I might end up cutting the weakest mana rock, like you did, but at the same time I find myself wanting slightly more rocks, not less. I like Candelabra on combo turn, since it fixes my colors, and I owe a few wins on Lim-Dl's Vault's "mega scry". YMMV.

I'm also unsure about Waste Not. It seems like a card I'd love to have before resolving a wheel, but not one I'd be enthusiastic to top deck. My fear is that since our deck is utterly vulnerable to Null Rod, tax effects, Rule of Law effects, Gaddock Teeg, and Spirit of the Labyrinth effects, I'd rather have polyvalent answers/removal for them than more explosive results. Targeted removal can also trigger Paradox Engine only if it finds a target; I really wish there were more cards like Abrupt Decay!

March 1, 2017 10:27 p.m.

Lilbrudder and BarbeChenue, five counterspells is fewer than I am used to seeing for competititive lists. Dan's Doomtide Thrasios plays eight and Skuloth's Zur list uses eleven. BarbeChenue, are you finding that number sufficient in the tournmanent? If I wanted to add two additional counters which cards would you guys remove?

March 3, 2017 7:55 p.m.

Lilbrudder says... #13

BarbeChenue: Thank you for posting the video and good luck this week :-) I am not a huge fan of candlestick but it hurt to cut lim dul's. If waste not proves to be too situational then I will probably bring it back but having more removal may be better. What do you think about Ancient Grudge and Pyroclasm? They are super cheap and can take out many of the big threats to our gameplan. I know you use Vandalblast and it has dome good work for you.

Frank_Glascock I already gave my opinion on this issue on the discord so I will let BarbeChenue provide his experience as he has more hands on experience with the deck than me. Im more of a magical theorist.

March 3, 2017 8:57 p.m.

BarbeChenue says... #14

Currently 2-2 in the cEDH tourney after last night's win! I did however notice quite a few misplays on my part post-game.

Highlights: Bloody hell is the deck resilient! Despite the setbacks, I managed to pull through once more. Fire Covenant is an absolute all star choice, destroying everyone's hatebears and mana dorks, creating a nightmare scenario. Following it immediately with Vandalblast is just pure undiluted schadenfreude, with both opponents reduced to two lands each.

A common theme of the deck is getting bogged down by hatebears for a while, but still managing to pull through. Having a ton of mana rocks and dorks makes it hard to cut into the mana base all at once. As a more midrange player, I feel very comfortable with games going longer. Certain hate pieces scare me more than others, but what I'm really afraid of is someone comboing ahead of me despite stax in play, while I'm left unable to react. If I can sculpt a hand with decent answers to the worst hate cards, I'm forcing the others to deal with me rather than develop their board or further their game plan because I threaten to win.

All that said, my assessment may very well change depending on future matchups. Stax decks playing blue like Grand Arbiter and Teferi seem very well positioned to counter the deck, and faster combos -- like Food Chain Tazri -- might prove to be difficult to interact with. Time will tell!

March 14, 2017 4:37 a.m.

Lilbrudder says... #15

Awesome! Thank you for the Update and GG.

March 14, 2017 5:27 a.m.