Under the Gush Pile header you say "we use LED to pay for Yawgmoths", but Lion's Eye Diamond was errata'd to say "Play this ability only any time you could play an instant." So you'd have to have the mana already for Yawgmoth's Will, you could crack LED in response to YW so that you'd have the ability to gain 6 additional mana though.

EDIT: Nevermind, I hadn't gotten far enough to see that you crack the LED in response to the spell that draws YW.

yeah when you know that yawgmoth's will is the next card in your deck you can crack led before you draw it. This pays for Laboratory maniac and Yawgmoths will in your doomsday piles.

My local play group has started to get into Canadian Highlander and I was wondering if you had any advice which point cards to put in the deck?

Don't play Doomsday in that format. You don't have nearly the number of points you need for the tutors and ramp to play doomsday, also there is no need to go all in since its a 1v1 format.

DruneGrey

Oh dear, I don't know much about CanLander. If you want to play Doomsday in the format, I'd prioritize the cards which let you make the efficiency piles:

From the points list, the two cards you have to play are Doomsday (1) and Mana Crypt (2) since they are regularly used (the first one obviously haha). Other than that you get the rest of the good piling cards from normal EDH for free.

Here are cards which I would consider from CanLander which are completely stupid with Doomsday, you'll have to pick based on the 8 points we have left:

1. Fastbond (1)
2. Ancestral Recall (6)
3. Black Lotus (7)
4. Tolarian Academy (1)
5. Time Walk (5)

These are cards which more or less break Doomsday and make piling much easier. Considering we have only 8 points left, the best choices to me seem to be Fastbond + Recall + Tolarian Academy since you get 3 busted cards. GushBond Doomsday is pretty dumb, and also really easy haha cause you just replay any number of lands you want. Mana becomes a non-issue. Tolarian Academy is just busted, and plays nicely with the rocks we'll be playing. Ancestral Recall is P9 and probably the card which is most powerful in Doomsday overall. Brainstorm is incredibly good with Doomsday, and Recall is essentially that card on steroids.

I'll qualify that I don't play the format, so I'm not sure exactly what is best. But I can list cards which break Doomsday in half.

Ideally we want Black Lotus and Recall for maximum borked, but the points don't let us do that. :(

Even so adding cards like that and you lose Vampiric Turor, Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Merchant Scroll, Sol Ring, Mana vault, basically every cards that makes DD work

No I agree, but I thought I provide some kind of an answer if you wanted to do it. Losing tutors hurts.

None of the cards which make DD "work" need points minus Doomsday and Crypt, but you lose a lot of cards which help make it a worthwhile win condition. You can add in the tutors but then you lose the broken cards which make you want to play Doomsday in the first place.

It's at least interesting to think about, which cards you want to be playing.

My first thought was I can fit, Demonic, Vampiric and Mystical Tutors with Doomsday. You still get Yawgmoth's/LED/Lab-Man plus most of the cantrips, so you'd still likely have workable piles.

I just got a copy of Doomsday, and this thread is invaluable. I'm a huge fan of black cards that seem like they have massive downsides (Necropotence, Doomsday) but easily win you the game if you know what you're doing.

I'll have fun contemplating my own Doomsday piles. Lab Maniac for the efficient win, and now I just need stuff for the stylish win...

Lord_Khaine

Hellcarver Demon is max style max disrespect.

Bruh..

How about Demonlord Belzenlok??

Oooo... I like the Demonlord Belzenlok appeal. Doomsday, Belzenlok, shenanigans.

Demonlord Belzenlok seems really bad in an Ad Nauseam deck but thats just me.

I will always have a soft spot for ridiculously overcosted black creatures with a silly effect attached.

I also probably wouldn't ever touch them for Doomsday lol. But major style points to anyone who does.

Well, once you know you can do an efficient Doomsday pile, then you gotta practice having the most stylish Doomsday. The showiest, the flashiest, the most memorable.

Whats the Commander for the deck?

Comedydragon84

None for this one, it's just a primer on how to play hte card. Many commanders work for this.

Hi! First of all: GREAT ** PRIMER. I am currently building a version of Esper (Zur) DD, since I found a (pretty mistreated) Yawgmoth's Will in a box of one of my friends.

I have one question though: It is possible to achieve consistent piles (and wins) without the use of a L.E.D.? It is (and probably will remain for a long while) out of my budget, sadly.

Anyway, great content, keep it up!

pablcol

It is possible, though a little weaker. The piles you want to look into are piles which use Predict and Unearth as the way to use Laboratory Maniac to win.

I agree, sadly LED has just become a very hard to obtain card, and unfortunately is one of the key pieces which makes Doomsday competitive thanks to the ability to produce 3 mana of any color. However, it's very doable to play without, and generally you lean on Unearth. This also helps trim Yawgmoth's Will, and while neither should be cut, both are sadly expensive, and this is I think the best alternative.

Hi all! What would be the best pile with aminatou? Predict labman probe LED

nyrlem_true

Most piles are UB so across those types of commanders it won't change much. So, Gush piles, etc. Sadly Aminatou doesn't give too much worthwhile to making piles easier since she replaces a card and doesn't go through the pile actively. But she does at least open it.

AlwaysSleepy problem is, that you do not want play gush, cause it is bad card on it's own and as you told, there is one more card which you have to draw. Predict maniac LED probe will does not work, there is need for drawing more cards .. so you have to switch probe probably with something which draws two cards?

nyrlem_true

If you really want to make Aminatou work then you can throw in multiple draw 2 spells. Take your pick of Gush/Night's Whisper/Frantic Search, etc. and play more than just the 1 in the stock pile.

If you are playing Doomsday, however, you really do need to play Gush. Skipping it makes Doomsday not worth playing. It gives Doomsday some speed and lets you win without a lot of mana investment. Gush is "fine" on its own, not great but on a High Tide mana-base like most DD lists play, it's passable. The other options are not as good for piling. Frantic Search and Night's Whisper require extra resources.

The ultimate recommendation sadly, is don't build piles around Aminatou, since she makes your life harder and not easier. However, if you really want to, build them like normal with some extra power from multiple draws. The Predict pile also does work.

An example pile is:

1. Predict
2. Gitaxian Probe
3. Lion's Eye Diamond
4. Yawgmoth's Will
5. Laboratory Maniac

It plays out like this:

A. Open with Aminatou to draw Predict and put something on top

B. Predict the card you put on top, draw Gitaxian Probe and Lion's Eye Diamond

C. Cast Lion's Eye Diamond, then Gitaxian Probe/Lion's Eye Diamond for

D. Draw and cast Yawgmoth's Will

E. Cast Lion's Eye Diamond from the yard for

F. Gitaxian Probe from yard to draw and cast Laboratory Maniac

G. Cast Predict from the yard naming anything, draw to win

But that pile requires to win. You need the first to cast the Predict initially, but you can float leftover from the second Lion's Eye Diamond and use colorless mana to cast the Laboratory Maniac.

It's not that the piles here don't work, it's just that they are very inefficient. Unlike with Sensei's Divining Top, Aminatou doesn't let you draw again once you redraw, while SDT does. That's pretty important. While you can just jam any number of draw 2s, or Predict in the list to get there, it's just not where you want to be with DD builds.

My advice is don't skip Gush and the other good piles if you really want to play Aminatou, and I'd avoid relying on her to make your piles better.

Just curious, but is Breya or Yuriko Doomsday a viable choice of commanders?

generalrenard

They work but not the best in our experiences. Breya would be stronger since .

Playing at this time really means the commander has to be obscene, but I'm not sure Yuriko really gives enough.