Where's your Mental Misstep ?

Legion564 - Betrayal was in as a tempo swing, it has come out. In my latest update it and Seeds of Innocence came out for a Dark Confidant and a Runic Armasaur. You were on a good track!

Kross33 - Its too narrow for a counterspell.

Sounds good. I'm trying out incubation druid and thousand year elixir also for a little more consistency after a big ad naseum in case I don't hit isochron so I'll report on how that goes.

I've been following this list for a while now and I really dig your new changes to develop more card advantage by cutting the dead weight. Your Primer is very well thought out and you really inspired me to build my own Tasigur list for my 75% meta. I adopted a lot of your competitive lines and worked them into my build while implementing some meta calls as well as goodstuff in favor of value and longevity rather than speed. I'm not going to leave a shameless plug and link my deck on here, but if you wouldn't mind I would really appreciate it if you could look over my list that I have up on my page. I'd love to hear what you have to say. :)

Keep up the good work! I really like the content that you and the LabMan crew put out!

I agree with the Betrayal+seeds cut, I tried it briefly and they almost always sat in hand unlike any other cards in my deck, over multiple games always the same thing. Only ever had the combo of the two go off once, which was cool but too narrow to include.

Betrayal usually ended up being used alone for removal+tutor 99% of the time it was cast for me, still may include since my playgroup only has 1 twister player at the moment.

WisdomComes Betrayal has been lackluster in my experience testing as well. I may board it in again in a graveyard heavy matchup one night, but for now, I've been testing out Scavenging Ooze for a body and grave hate mana dump as a bit of a meta call on my part. Unfortunately, after at least ten games after slotting it in, I still have yet to even draw into it for some reason. There are a lot of graveyard strategies floating around in my meta, so I think it can work well but I can't speak on behalf of its performance quite yet.

What are your thoughts on Mox Opal? Do we run enough artifacts to successfully turn it on reliably?

Any tips for modifying the deck to fit a less competitive table? Counterbalance probably has to go since there's much more variance in CMC

Hey Cameron I have a couple of questions

• I have been super impressed by Tezzeret the Seeker in my Tasigur deck, what's your opinion on it.

• I also have been super impressed by Underrealm Lich , I run it in my Lord Windgrace MLD deck and it just wins games, especially with Sylvan Library . What do you think?

• Is Incubation Druid a good enough replacement for Bloom Tender to run with Freed from the Real , or should I skip that combo entirely without the Bloom Tender?

• What exactly is the purpose of Dimir Charm . I've tried it, but I was left unconvinced.

• And what is usually the tiebreaken between Necropotence and Ad Nauseam ? As far as I understand it, Necro is more consistent, is better with a higher cmc, but is hard to cast and taxes your later card draw. AdNaus is way more explosive, better with a low cmc, but far more dangerous. Are there any more arguments for either card?

• You also don't seem to run Mystical Tutor , Chain of Vapor , Frantic Search and Nature's Claim . Why not? I couldn't seem find anything about these cards in the primer.

I hope you find these questions interesting enough to answer. Have a good day :)

Aladdin - not enough artifacts yet. You want 16-18 for opal to be a solid consideration if you aren't wheeling a lot.

Dejadal - More board clears, less spot removal. There has been a ton of discussion regarding this in our discord. However, I personally have played my older lists into Battlecruiser metas and had a good time. The big thing is that the deck is strong but aimed at different things. One of the core concepts of the deck is that a 4/5 will cover all your combat needs. In less powerful metas, people are dropping 6/6 keyword soup creatures pretty constantly and Tasigur just doesn't cut it. I've actually lost most of my games with this cEDH deck in Battlecruiser games. Specifically because it wasn't designed to play in the same meta. You will find yourself really heavily pressured. If you do tune the deck with more board control, the deck is really solid and can get to an oppressive point.

dennisdegooijer - Tezz isn't great. Unlike Teferi or some Izzet decks, there are no silverbullets that you would be grabbing. He doesn't ramp enough to replace himself. He's just too much for too little.

Incubation druid is a solid budget replacement for bloomtender.

Underrealm Lich is just too slow for cEDH. Its a 5 mana do nothing until you draw a card.

Dimir Charm is a versatile answer to lots of various issues. It can stop tutors, it can stop timetwisters/windfalls or wraths. It can kill almost all the relevant commanders that may see play and want to stay on the battlefield, i.e. Tymna, both Selvalas, Thrasios, Vialsmasher, Captain Sisay, Yisan, Arcum, Baral, Brago, Circu, Grand Arbiter Augustin, JVP, Mizzix, Momir Vig, Rashmi, Tana, Varolz, etc. It can mill out top of deck tutors, if you feel that is the appropriate answer to them. And once you go infinite if you have no other win option, you can use it to mill out your opponents except for their last card. For the Necro and Ad naus discussion, you actually want to add Notion Thief to that mix. For Mass Card draw cards, most cEDH decks run two of those three. Necro just has fallen behind as it is hardest to cast and the slowest of card draw. As the game gets faster, you need to speed up the card draw sources and being able to leave up interaction then Ad Naus or Notion Thief on someone else's Windfall/Timetwister really makes a big difference.

Mystical tutor doesn't have enough targets and there is a balance between tutors and interaction that pushed it out. Also the fact that it is card disadvantage really adds to it falling away. Chain of Vapor is on the edge of coming in and out a lot. The real spot for it is in the Beast Within slot, however Beast Within is part of a infinite win. Frantic Search, while it is selection, it is also card disadvantage and is something we don't want to get back with Tasigur. The only non-land cantrip we have is Brainstorm. It is leaps and bounds above all the others. Nature's Claim is solid, but we need more universal removal in the general list, it would be a fine include if you are seeing a majority of stax elements that you need to get rid of in your local meta.

I have enjoyed all the contents above and all videos on youtube of your guys, I like them so much, as well as this control tasigur deck. The question is about the card crop rotation there, is it only for bog/strip mine, or it can be made use of other situations, I think it is narrow for only a one or two land tutor.

I saw burgeoning from your S3E1 video, which is not on this list. Which do you think better of exploration/burgeoning in this deck or you just run them both?

procy - Exploration wins out between the two, it is more consistent in the late game when you are looping LftL. The video was filmed back in December and it was in the middle some of the major changes I have documented in the change log.

Hi, I’m a huge fan of your build and was curious of your opinion on Ashiok, Dream Render’s effectiveness as another control option in the deck.

thatGuyneedsAusername - it is really solid. It is probably an auto include in every UBx midrange and control deck. It will most likely replace Counterbalance or Shadow of Doubt.

Hello Cameron,

As a dedicated Tasigur player and a fan I have a few questions I hope you can answer sometime.

Between Day's Undoing and Windfall which one do you think makes a better Ti metwister replacement? (Timetwister and OG duals lands are likely the only cards I will not be able to afford in the foreseeable future) I am leaning more towards Day's Undoing, but I have heard arguments both against and for it, I would like your opinion on that.

Also, what are your opinions regarding inclusion of Misdirection? Is it good, bad, or more of a metacall? Also with the removal of cabal coffer's a few version back don't you think the utility of crop rotation has decreased and perhaps that it could be replaced with more interaction, such as muddle the mixture?

2l84that - Windfall or some other piece of card draw like a Fact or Fiction would be better. Day's Undoing just hurts in that it ends your turn. If you are able to give it flash in some way, based on existing cards in your deck, then it might have a spot. Misdirection can be a narrower free counterspell, but it also is really hard card disadvantage. It you are in pods with all combo decks, it may be of use, but otherwise, we have better counterspells. For Crop Rotation, the graveyard hate is still relevant. Also it can mana fix you or feed your LftL by getting you a fetch land in play. It hasn't lost its spot yet.

Hey Cameron, how do you feel Thrasios and Silas Renn compares to Tasigur as a sultai control pairing?

How often is freed from the real a dead draw for you? Like the deck a lot and am considering building jt.

love this primer and you keep up with it, this will be my cedh deck from now on

Jt5525e10 It isn't great. I'd put Tymna in Silas's place any day if you were running Thrasios for a similar deck.

Doveyy Not often.

steven11788 Thanks!

Good to know, my gold fishing had a bad playtest but i didnt do it many times. Love the deck man.

What is the purpose of the Season's Past loop? I get that with infinite mana you can tutor for your combo, but couldn't you just repeatedly activate Tasigur at that point to achieve the same thing?

Hello LabManiac_Cameron, I’ve been following your deck and I have a question for you. It’s clearly the Ashiok, Dream Render ’s effectiveness but what about the Narset, Parter of Veils ? It will be good too?

Best regards.

I'm putting this deck together for a newly established 3-player cEDH meta.

I'm in love with Palinchron, but I get that Dramatic Scepter is almost strictly superior. However, with Neoform the deck would have 2 ways of turning Tasigur into Palinchron. With Phantasmal Image and Utopia Sprawl already in the deck, it seems like a fairly card effective addition for more redundant infinite mana generation. Thoughts?

I suppose that once we start adding more high cmc creatures to the deck, Tasigurs mill becomes worse and worse, and I don't want to turn the deck back into a reanimator list.

With Neoform and Eldritch Evolution, I'm tempted to add a few "fun-of" 7cmc cards like Diluvian Primordial, to see how they work out in my meta :)