Erneyyy - They cost too much for competitive decks. For tuned but not cEDH metas they are okay. Sudden Spoiling usually requires additional setup to be of real use though.

oliveoilonyaasscureshemorrhoid - I actually have kept Rapid Hybridization in the deck. I added Assassin's Trophy in the flex slot that Phantasmal Image was occupying. I'm using Mission Briefing over Snapcaster now. Briefing has some notable benefits but also has the more restrictive cost. The big benefit is that there isn't an ability for your opponents to interact with your choice, it happens all during the resolution of the spell. This is pretty big when comparing it to the targeted ability of Snap Caster that can be interacted with. Mausoleum Secrets just isn't good enough. I attempt to keep this list as solid as I can and major changes I test out in a secondary list until I have solidified the changes. This allows most consistency in this list. That being said, this list has now been updated to what I am playing going forward.

Sterling0528 - Phantsmal Image was in a flex slot. It was really good for the people I was playing against. It has now been removed for an Assassin's Trophy.

Jt5525e10 - Exploration is more consistent. Burgeoning is more bursty. You need to have lands in hand and your opponents need to have lands to play. Exploration is much more in your control and has less factors required to get you a benefit. Life from the Loam is in the deck to both recur lands and to use cycling lands as cantrips that cannot be given back to you by Tasigur. The case where Exploration is good occurs much more frequently in games than the case were Burgeoning is good, at one point, Burgeoning was in the deck but it has been cut for other mana accelerators.

-Elves of Deep Shadow +Utopia Sprawl -Eldritch Evolution +Mnemonic Betrayal -Razaketh, the Foulblooded +Riftsweeper -Nezahal, Primal Tide +Seeds of Innocence -Engineered Explosives +Pernicious Deed -Life \ Death +Grafdigger's Cage -Necropotence +Notion Thief -Snapcaster Mage +Mission Briefing -Arcane Denial +Stubborn Denial -Manifold Insights +Ad Nauseam -Phantasmal Image +Assassin's Trophy -Training Grounds +Bloom Tender -Eternal Witness +Freed from the Real -Dark Petition +Paradox Engine -Trickbind +Mana Vault -Cabal Coffers +Priest of Titania

I like the changes. I feel like there is something I'm missing / not understanding / you're smarter than me and can explain it:

What is the purpose of freed from the real? I'm thinking it pairs with bloom tender, produces infinite green, and can start going off with tasigur.

Also, what is the purpose behind mnemonic betrayal?

Lastly, what combos with paradox engine?

I apologize for all the questions. I like to use your list as a basis for my version of Tasigur (which is largely this with some budget restrictions).

Thank you!

I found the correct sections in the primer for an explanation. The only thing I didn't see was the reasoning behind mnemonic betrayal.

@nlabelle I can't speak for Cameron's exact plans but Mnemonic Betrayal scales very well for cEDH applications, especially the theft of fast mana artifacts. If I had to guess, Seeds of Innocence was specifically added to the deck to enable a big turn with Mnemonic Betrayal where you swoop in and steal a bunch of Mana Crypts, Vaults, Monolith's, Sol Rings, etc. Can also swipe a bunch of mana dorks after a cheap Toxic Deluge. It's a very fun card with tremendous upside.

nlabelle - As Syncharmony said, Betrayal is used after a board wipe to recast fast mana rocks, mana dorks, cantrips and tutors. Most of the fast rocks in cEDH are mana positive, this means that we can chain them together to get quite a huge mana advantage for future turns while also crippling your opponent's mana bases. You can then use the additional mana from those rocks to cast spells from your opponents graveyard for additional value.

Sorry for all the questions.

What is the mnuemonic betrayal package? It seems like a pretty bad card, but I’m no expert. Also, doesn’t Grafdiggers cage hurt a lot of your deck (Yawgmoth’s, mission briefing, etc.)?

Sterling0528 - the package is Betrayal, Pernicious Deed and Seeds of Innocence. The big thing is that you are looking t destroying fast mana and then stealing it for yourself as the primary purpose. Popping Deed for 1, then Mnemonic Betrayaling all the sol rings, mana crypts, and mana dorks. makes for a very strong power play. Additionally late game, you can turn any excess mana you have into tutors, cantrips or other useful one shot spells.

Hi! Glad to see that the updates made it through the testing phase. I have a few questions whough. Keep in mind that these are coming from non-cEDH perspective;

• what about Razaketh package? Apart from it being a nonbo with AdNaus, is there another reason to remove it? Same question about Nezahal. I'm just incorporating a small reanimator package into my control Tas and a perspecrive on these would help a lot.

• Dark petition vs Paradox engine - PA is a reasonable choice with AdNaus despite its cmc imo and has quite some utility with SP, especially with the newly added Vault. However the loss of Petition weakens the usual SP routine and I'd like to hear your opinion about both without AdNaus.

• no Necro - outaide cEDH dmg is a problem just as with AdNaus. How did your Compost testing go? Could you recommend the swap if I too care about life a lot, but for a different reason?

Tnx in advance!

P.S.

Why did Training Grounds get removed? It's been meh for me lately and I'm thinking of removing it. Any helpful comment/feedback on its performance and your reasons to remove it would be awesome.

P.P.S.

Sorry for double posting. The first one I wrote in a hurry and tappedout still refuses to allow comment editing.

Didn’t your original version contain the Palinchron, Phantasmal Image combo? Was this too vulnerable?

JohnnyCRO - Part of the overhaul was to try some major changes. The big thing was to attempt to get Ad Naus into the deck. The Razaketh package doesn't fit into that very well at all. Dropping Petition was a bit of a later decision to keep Imperial Seal in the deck. Dropping CMC helps with Ad Naus. Dox Engine was an additional include as it synergized well with the additional mana dorks that were added to the deck. Necro was dropped while adding Notion Thief. Generally you want 2 of Necro, Ad Naus, Notion Thief. Necro was mostly used to necro to a full hand and then taxed yourself continually for all of your card draws. Training grounds was just cut as I was having to cut the most least used cards or lowest overall impact. Training Grounds is still really good, but more mana dorks and other mana options have been added to make up for the mana advantage lost from not having it in the deck.

Fixz - Yes. Originally Palinchron and Phantasmal Image were in the deck. It is just too slow now.

Really enjoy the deck. In the process of building a budget version and am wondering if LFTL is worth using w/out fetch lands. Do have the cycles, but won't have fast fetches. Have access to slow fetches but as the name implies, they're too slow. I really love that combo with the fetch/cycle lands, but I won't have the fetches for some time at least.

Do seasons past loops still work without dark petition since vampiric tutor/imperial seal just tutor to the top? Am I missing something?

IS MISSION BRIEFING BETTER THAN SNAPCASTER MAGE IN THIS DECK?

Cap10Melonhead - They are possible. They are a little bit more convoluted. Your loop options are Cycling Land at 0 + Vampiric Tutor at 1 + Demonic Tutor at 2. Demonic Tutor for Seasons Past, Vampiric Tutor for anything and cycle the land to draw it. This will cost you 2 life per iteration so it will be a priority to put out an Aetherflux Reservoir.

Planeswalker_Toshi - It is an alternative to Snapcaster that has notable upsides for Tasigur. Possibly both should be in the deck. The big upsides are that the card you cast doesn't have to be in your graveyard at time of casting Mission Briefing and that your opponents do not get priority between you choosing the card you want to cast and then being able to cast it. You choose as part of the resolution of Mission Briefing then you maintain priority after it has resolved. So you can then cast the spell immediately and their graveyard hate cannot target it. They will have to use their grave hate before Mission Briefing resolves or not at all.

Any replacements for expensive cards like chains of mephisopheles?

LabManiac_Cameron For a Season Past loop with the existing build, tell me if this is reasonable at all.

Cast Demonic Tutor finding Praetor's Grasp. Cast Praetor's Grasp on someone who has not resolved a to-hand tutor or spell recursion spell this game. Cast their tutor or use their recursion to recast your DT to find Seasons Past. Then you get back Praetor's + Demonic, shuffling Seasons Past. Now you start a loop where you exile a card with Praetor's, tutor for Seasons with Demonic then rinse and repeat until you've exiled everyone's libraries.

Primary first targets for Grasp being:

Tutors:

• Demonic Tutor
• Dark Petition
• Grim Tutor
• Tainted Pact (exiling to SP)
• Plunge into Darkness (exiling to SP)
• Spellseeker (to retrieve MB or Regrowth)
• Muddle the Mixture (Finding MB)
• Intuition (retrieving SP, MB and Regrowth)
• Merchant Scroll (for MB)

Recusion (to recast DT):

• Mission Briefing
• Snapcaster
• Regrowth
• Eternal Witness

It's not as nice and clean as the original loop but there's a high enough concentration of targets that it feels fringe viable.

Trismegistus18 - Replace it with another piece of relevant interaction for you.

Syncharmony - For fast metas, I'm boarding out Seasons Past. Runic Armasaur is going in that slot. For slower metas, it still works but you can replace Ad Nauseam with a to-hand tutor (Dark Petition / Grim Tutor) if you really want the original loop. A loop currently exists in the deck with cycling land + vampiric tutor + demonic tutor. It takes 2 life per additional card you tutor out, but each of those cards are better than Praetor's Grasp. Grasp is still a good card and if your meta is slower, then it is a fine include.

Syncharmony - And by fine include... I mean I'm still running it. :) the loop is solid as well, either route will get you to a win.

LabManiac_Cameron To be honest, I was originally going to ask you if you intended to rename the deck from Seasons Pastigur to something else. So, before I wrote that I was like "well wait, is there some kind of janky combo in here that still let's you do a Seasons Past loop with nothing in hand other than a Demonic Tutor?" Just a dumb but fun mental exercise.

Will you discuss new cards like Growth Spiral, Incubation // Incongruity, Awaken the Erstwhile, Rampage of the Clans for this deck? And would it be appropriate to ask if the Laboratory Maniacs channel do a competitive review for the other Ravnica sets? Thanks in advance.

Do you think Incubation Druid + Vigean Graftmage is worth playing instead of or in addition to Bloom Tender + Freed from the Real?

Why urborg with no coffers? Seems like black is the least necessary color for tasigur but am I missing something?

Hey Cameron, I have also have a Tasigur control deck, I have a question for you. My deck runs about 10 artifacts with low cmc, most games that I play with a pernicious deed in my opener force me to not play out my rocks until turn 4 - 5. Is this nonbo worth it in a less competitive meta? Also do you run seeds of innocence because of the cedh meta game?

Hey Cameron, what do you think of cutting a few mana dorks and adding tabernacle/sylvan scrying or Tolaria west? Also, I know this card is super expensive again, but is drop of honey worth a spot?