Can i get any further explanation for Ashnod's Altar. Making a deck very similar to this and yet to have it warrant a place, cheers.

scottemery: Ashnod's Altar serves a few purposes in the deck. The primary one is similar to that of Krark-Clan Ironworks where it allows us to sacrifice spare creatures as a ritual effect to cast Kozilek early. It also serves an important role in winning through a combo route. Because Kozilek, Butcher of Truth shuffles the graveyard back into the library if you actually let him die and go to the graveyard, this allows you to loop any card in your library as many times as you want. This has been way more relevant than you would think. Azor's Gateway  ^Flip as well as opponents just using removal spells against you often means that important combo pieces are lost in the early game and there are many times in cEDH that you cannot afford to just set up an unbeatable field and wait for the next turn to win. The ability to cycle your entire library an arbitrary amount of times means that you have a lot of backup win conditions if it comes to it. Hell, I've won by decking everyone else out with Candelabra of Tawnos, Ashnod's Altar, Paradox Engine, a bunch of mana rocks, and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea before (casting and sacrificing Kozilek a bunch of times of course). I genuinely had no other options left that could win or establish a lock on my turn and the storm player made it clear that if it got to their turn, they had the win. Also, it can sacrifice one of your ridiculously powerful creatures if someone tries to steal it which is preferable to dying to your own creature. With the amount of attention Gilded Drake has been getting in cEDH, this is not an issue to shrug off. If people see Kozilek in the command zone, they will wait to cast it and they will absolutely give you the 3/3 flyer in exchange for your commander. Lastly, there are a lot of times with your absurd mana production that you run out of cards in hand and it is almost always right to sacrifice Kozilek and recast him to draw 4 more cards.

All that said, Mirage Mirror (copying Kozilek) serves the second purpose as well (just keep the clone and let the real one die to the legend rule). This can be tricky if you need to use Mirage Mirror for other purposes but the option is there. And if I am honest, Ashnod's Altar is definitely on the cutting block. I don't blame you if you want to just play another mana rock in its place but it has been very relevant a lot of times for me so I am always hesitant to cut it.

[Chaos Wand (M19)] seems like it belongs here.

LustyArgonian: I'm not sold on it yet but I will give it a chance. It seems like a high variance card and those don't tend to synergize well with the deck or do well in cEDH in the first place. I guess theoretically it does shenanigans with Paradox Engine but pretty much everything else does as well and in the cEDH meta, more likely than not, it will just hit a random counterspell (which may not even be castable unless you activate it in response to a spell and hope for the best) or disruption piece like a Nature's Claim. Although the ability to screw with opposing Imperial Seal effects and the off chance of hitting a Yawgmoth's Will/Timetwister/Vampiric Tutor/other powerful and actually relevant card for this deck does at least make it a decent budget option if nothing else. I'll pick one up when the set comes out and test it to see if I end up liking it.

Really fantastic decklist. No love for Trading Post, though? It's a bit slow and expensive to be sure, but sac outlets are invaluable in a Kozzy deck, I've found. Plus it can snag you back your Rings of Brighthearth when they're inevitably killed on sight. Maybe it's a bit better than Haunted Cloak? Being safe seems a little better than being smashy to me at least.

How has Static Orb been working for you? I want to include more stax in my list, but I have been hesitant to incorporate such balls to the wall lockdown as static orb provides.

Wurwilf: Trading Post was in the list for quite a while but it is just so slow and most of the time it just made goats for a few turns and got hit by removal. It is great as a tool to loop cards when you have infinite mana and untaps, but Kozilek already does that if there isn't a Rest in Peace effect lying around. I think Trading Post is far better in lists like Karn, Silver Golem where you are more dedicated to combos and don't really have to option of just Annihilator 4'ing away whatever/whoever is causing you problems. And as bizarre as it sounds, Candelabra of Tawnos replaced Trading Post as a sacrifice outlet for my deck by allowing me to untap my High Market/Miren, the Moaning Well. It may not be as consistent at guaranteeing said effects, but I have cast Kozilek, Butcher of Truth on turn one before because of Candelabra of Tawnos so I think the tradeoff is acceptable. There is always Mirage Mirror if I need the extra sacrifice effect too (copy Kozilek, keep the clone) and Mirage Mirror also has really high upsides that Trading Post did not.

Haunted Cloak is definitely on the cutting board but given that the plan is almost always to cast Kozilek really fast, giving him haste is very relevant so that you can cripple/entirely knock someone out of the game the turn you cast him. And in the situation that you do not need it, it is 3 mana, which lines up well with cost discounters like Semblance Anvil to still work as a Dark Ritual effect with Krark-Clan Ironworks (a hidden, but surprisingly relevant theme of the deck, as is the theme of costing 3 mana for Mishra's Workshop shenanigans).

As for Static Orb, I absolutely love the card. An early Kozilek + a stax effect almost always kills off at least 1 player, and if you have good threat assessment, can win the game outright. Static Orb is not my favorite stax piece that the deck runs (that has to go to Tangle Wire) but when it is good, it is absurdly good. Also, it has the best phrase a stax effect could ever have for this deck: "As long as (insert name) is untapped..." meaning that Clock of Omens (or Blinkmoth Well) makes it one sided by tapping it down on your opponent's end step. Given that Clock of Omens is one of the best cards in the deck anyway and almost always my first tutor from a Kuldotha Forgemaster/Inventors' Fair, this is definitely a plus.

Wurwilf: I forgot to mention that even with the drop in presence of Ad Nauseam decks due to all the meta changes in the semi-recent past, storm/solitaire combo decks are one of the harder decks for this list to deal with and in those matchups if Mindslavering them is not an option; hitting them with Annihilator 4, and almost always 12 damage as the only creatures that most storm decks play are mana dorks is usually enough to solve the issue of them just casting Ad Nauseam on your end step and winning on their turn so this is another reason for haste outlets such as Haunted Cloak. I have found that 3 of an effect is usually ideal for something like that and Haunted Cloak costs a relatively low amount to cast and equip, as well as giving other decent abilities (who cares if the storm player blocks with a Deathrite Shaman or Birds of Paradise if Kozilek has trample?).

I primarily just wanted to say thank you for posting and maintaining this list. I really enjoyed reading it and I am going to go with Kozilek over Karn now for my colorless EDH commander as a result of your primer!

I am curious: what do you think of Memory Jar here? Seems like it could be a great way to pump out additional ramp while disrupting your opponent's in the process, and could potentially do more work than Dreamstone Hedron here.

Also, you mentioned in an old comment that you wanted to test out Scroll Rack but couldn't think of what to cut. Have you revisited this? Seems like it would be better than Haunted Cloak at first glance, or possibly even Inspiring Statuary depending on how often you are seeing cards like Stony Silence/Null Rod (maybe your meta has warped around your Kozilek deck and so these are way more prevalent, but in my playgroup, I seem to be the only person who knows about these cards!). Thoughts?

Final question: I tend to try and build with some recursion as a backup plan, but I see you don't include cards like Junk Diver/Scrap Trawler and their ilk despite the high volume of artifacts. Is this due to Kozilek's reshuffle ability or are your games just too fast to warrant their inclusion?

Cheers!

Vukodlak: I am glad that you enjoyed it.

I ran Memory Jar for quite a while but and it is a decent option but never seemed to line up quite right. Most of the time I cast it, I had to wait a turn to use it or else I would just be ditching cards that I did not want to discard (this deck has a lot of high CMC cards) and if I had to wait the extra turn, people would keep up mana to stop what I was doing when I used it or would just destroy it before I got to do anything with it. It was almost always a better option to just cast more ramp and play Kozilek. Or if Kozilek was already in play, sacrifice and recast him. I may try it again one day, but for now I am not that big of a fan.

Dreamstone Hedron is one of the best mana rock in the deck as it gives a ton of mana on Paradox Engine turns and can be sacrificed for 3 cards if you have mana and nothing to do with it. Getting to 10 mana is very important for the deck and that gap right before you get to 10 is one of the only times that the deck is actually vulnerable so I doubt that I will ever cut this card.

The same issue that originally kept me from using Scroll Rack still persists: I don't have a lot of ways to shuffle my library. If I could ditch 6 cards, crack a fetch land and not have to redraw them, I would absolutely run it but it was not relevant enough often enough for me to want it so I cut it.

I actually just explained a few comments ago why I think that Haunted Cloak still deserves it's inclusion but that can be an easy meta call if you don't end up wanting to run it.

Inspiring Statuary is a card that I would still run even in a meta with no Stony Silence/Null Rod effects. Not only is it the best card in the deck if someone is running the aforementioned cards, but it is very useful to be able to turn a lot of the random artifacts that just sit around into mana rocks. And if the deck plays anything for you like it has for me, you can expect to see a lot more artifact hate in your meta in the near future. Cast an Eldrazi titan on turn 3 a couple of times and people will start to notice and adapt.

As for Junk Diver/Scrap Trawler, it is a bit of a meta call. This list is supposed to be the highest possible power level that the deck can reasonably achieve, hence the ridiculous price tag. The extra recursion is fine but not often relevant in cEDH unless you were planning on using them for combo purposes and this deck runs a lot of graveyard hate so I try to avoid combo pieces that don't do much if you aren't using them to combo as it is fully possible that they will get exiled by Relic of Progenitus or Scavenger Grounds rendering them useless. Kozilek's shuffle effect can make a lot of random cards in the deck into a win condition when looped so it is very rarely necessary for the extra recursion anyway.

I hope this was helpful. Sorry for the late response, I have been busy with finals.

Decrepit_Angel, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on the aforementioned cards and the various meta implications for each!

I am going to build the deck and try a few of these out for myself, but I get the sense that you are correct. I appreciate the insight. Good luck with finals!

Hi Decrepit_Angel, I just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed the amount of work you've put into making this deck and I've had a ton of fun with it for the past year now. I wanted to type out some observations and ask you some questions if you're still around to read them lol:

1: The three cards I've found to be underperforming the most are Krark-Clan Ironworks , Candelabra of Tawnos , and Helm of Awakening (in order of decreasing effectiveness). I wanted to know about your thoughts and experiences regarding them.

Krark-Clan Ironworks I've basically never had a use for aside from some niche infinite combos, I never found a situation where it would be advantageous to sacrifice some artifacts to cast Kozilek nor was I ever tutoring for it. I wouldn't cut it yet, but I'm not terribly enthusiastic about it.

Candelabra of Tawnos was 99% of the time a dead card, never used it in infinite combos nor did I really ramp with it. There was never a situation where I only had one land untapped while wanting access to multiple utility lands at once. The best use I found for candelabra was in tandem with Winter Orb , but there are so many other ways to sidestep Winter Orb's drawback that it's not terribly important to me. The card has been dead in such a majority of cases that I've cut it in a few iterations and never looked back.

I've never found a use for Helm of Awakening, even a niche use. It's always the first card I chuck away with Azor's Gateway  ^Flip, it's always the first card I throw away with Geier Reach Sanitarium , it's never once helped me when I had it in hand. Not useful while comboing with Paradox Engine , and there's never a good turn to play it otherwise because the drawback is antithetical to the stax options this deck employs. It's only a mana closer to Kozilek, and the drawback loses so many games. It never feels like there's a good turn to play it, and the times I played it just to try it, I promptly lost after.

Aside from those three, I've also wondered about Haunted Cloak and Tormod's Crypt . Haunted Cloak is difficult to fit into the curve, considering the initial 3 mana cost and the 1 to equip with after. Combined with the fact that it doesn't even protect the Kozilek, and I haven't found too many uses for it. Tormod's Crypt also feels situational, though I like its place as a graveyard hate. I wonder if it could be replaced by Grafdigger's Cage or some other card, some with more utility or something that replaces itself.

I've also been trying out lands like Zhalfirin Void and Blast Zone , currently shaving a Wastes and Sea Gate Wreckage (the latter I've literally never used its ability once). 4 wastes still feels very good to play with.

2: Are there any new options you might test out? I've been very impressed with Ugin, the Ineffable , all three abilities are relevant and the card provides much needed removal against the horrors of Stony Silence and the likes. I've also been playing with Staff of Nin lately, the card draw engine has been nice and the ping provides a much faster way to close the game with an infinite combo. Without the ping, I've had to resort to more convoluted means to close the game. Not necessarily an objective power level argument, but it saves a lot of headaches at the table.

I appreciate all the work you've put into the deck, and I hope you'll continue working on it in the future!

203995014

Sorry for the late response. I was caught up with finals at University and haven't had the time to play much magic or keep up with the game much at all.

The deck has gone through quite a few iterations, several of which were due to meta calls and what hate pieces were best at the time. Winter Orb effects were absurdly good in my meta at the time, hence the inclusion of Candelabra of Tawnos but I think that you are right in it being unnecessary for most metas. Helm of Awakening is also a relic of the old build that still had occasional use but again, I think you are right in cutting it. Krark-Clan Ironworks is a difficult one for me to justify cutting as it makes Spine of Ish Sah far worse without combo potential. I guess that dropping both would give a slot for the new Ugin and Karn without even messing with the mana curve so I will likely try that and see if I end up missing the old cards.

As for going down even more Wastes , that is a meta call but I personally feel like 5 is the right amount. Solemn Simulacrum and Burnished Hart get worse with less basics and when I originally ran 4 Wastes , I had more than one situation where I ran out in deck making the aforementioned cards nearly useless. Also, given how commonplace it is to see Assassin's Trophy nowadays, and given that everything this deck does is good at terrifying people into using all of their removal on you, I don't think I would go down any. Honestly, if I can find space for it, I think I would go up one more Wastes as all of the 4 color partner decks make Blood Moon and Back to Basics effects far better and far more common. Blood Moon is almost always just a mild inconvenience but Back to Basics can be game ending if you don't have enough artifact mana out (and was another consideration for why I ran Candelabra of Tawnos ).

Blast Zone is definitely better than Sea Gate Wreckage in most scenarios so I will swap that out. Zhalfirin Void is fine but I'm not sure what I would cut for it. If nothing else, I can add it to the budget options list.

Ugin, the Ineffable will probably find his way into the list (especially because of the synergy he has with Ashnod's Altar when he doesn't have to be used to break stuff) but I am far more interested in Karn, the Great Creator . Even if his minus 2 is basically useless excluding niche situations such as getting back your exiled stuff, his static ability is more than enough to justify his inclusion. (also, his plus kills Mana Crypt s and Mox Diamond s/ Mox Opal )s/etc. I might even experiment with the hard lock he has with Mycosynth Lattice .

As for Tormod's Crypt and Haunted Cloak , I will likely end up cutting Haunted Cloak due to the deck being less focused on the combat win than it was originally when I added it and wrote the primer. I am not sure about just swapping Tormod's Crypt for Grafdigger's Cage but I will think about it. Grafdigger's Cage is better at stopping Protean Hulk shenanigans (and a lot of other similar win-conditions) as well as stopping Yisan, the Wanderer Bard and Captain Sisay decks, both of which are already bad matchups. Tormod's Crypt is better against storm decks and anything that relies on Timetwister loops as well as just guaranteeing that certain problematic cards are removed instead of temporarily shut down. I might just end up running both if I can find space. I'll experiment with what I can and if I get the chance to play some games, I'll add my experiences with the new cards. Expect an update some time in the next week or so to the primer.

And thank you for all of the advice. I fell a bit behind on the primer due to college so if you have any other advice for potential cards or things to cut, I would appreciate it. I really haven't gotten to play much magic since the start of the new year and I am sure that the meta has changed quite a bit.

Thank you for your thoughts!

I've been tinkering with this list as I continue to test and play more EDH games. Here are further observations I've made and card options I've considered to replace those that have underperformed.

I've tried Blast Zone for several games now, and it's been difficult to use to say the least. The card tends to be slow because you have to invest mana to increase charge counters, then you have to tap the turn after to destroy whatever you need to. It's been difficult justifying tutoring for Blast Zone with Expedition Map, and I haven't found it productive to use the ability in any of my games. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but thus far I'd almost rather play a Wastes in its place.

I haven't missed Haunted Cloak at all. I probably wouldn't swap Tormod's Crypt , there are tons of games where it's dead but I consider it an important tool against too many other decks for it to be worth removing. Sometimes, it's the only reason why I won at all. It still activates Paradox Engine , helps with Inspiring Statuary , etc.

I find it difficult to justify Karn, the Great Creator considering that this deck doesn't have many ways of protecting the dude. I already assume that whenever I cast Karn Liberated or Ugin, the Ineffable (both of which are incredible btw) they're going to die immediately. Expensive removal spells essentially. Perhaps I'm narrow-minded though, if you have better experiences with him I'd love to hear them!

A few cards I've been trying lately are Unstable Obelisk , Crawlspace , and the Grafdigger's Cage mentioned earlier. I consider those to be the safer cards to test, though I've also considered more splashy effects in their place like Null Brooch , Ring of Three Wishes , and Planar Bridge .

Null Brooch is the craziest of them all I think. The ability interests me as one of the few ways to interact with spells/combos, and the theory is that the drawback of discarding your hand can be negated by the numerous draw options present (including the commander). Whether the tradeoff is worthwhile remains to be seen, I haven't tried it yet but I will. Ring and Bridge are just expensive and I'm dubious as to if they're really necessary. One benefit I can see to Planar Bridge is that it can serve as Ugin, the Spirit Dragon #2, which is a card I tend to look for in most of my games.

Finally, Stony Silence is so crippling lmao, I've lost to it so many times. It makes me wonder if there are tools that can be played to alleviate that, whether it be circumventing the ability through Inspiring Statuary , not involve activating abilities or removing it altogether (two of Ugin, the Ineffable 's abilities)

Neat deck!

Have you replaced Paradox Engine since its recent banning? If not, might I suggest either Manifold Key or Bag of Holding

Sorry for the update taking so long everyone. This semester of college has been brutal. I have played maybe two games total of mtg in the last two months so I have not been able to test any of my ideas for this deck since they very rudely banned Paradox Engine the same day that I was typing out the updated primer that is now useless. Yet another argument to be made for separate banlists for casual and competitive edh as I really don't like how many cedh decks are gone or just lost an entire tier of power level with that banning that did not hurt the most degenerate and uninteractive decks (If anything, it helped them as the best decks to counter the uninteractive ones often relied on Paradox Engine ).

Either way, I digress. If anyone wants to make a list of recommended changes for me, I will update the primer accordingly so people can continue to make use of it post-ban and when I get the chance to actually test some of my ideas, I'll include my own opinions and card choices. I have been experimenting with the idea of going more stax oriented (which would give a great reason to run Karn, the Great Creator , seriously, I hate Null Rod effects so much, I just want to return the favor) as well as a more combat oriented focus as the combo aspect of the deck took a serious hit with the banning. Except for maybe Mishra's Workshop , I would say that Paradox Engine was the best card in the deck so I think it merits some potential redesign to compensate for the loss.