Pir Imagination

Commander / EDH firerif

SCORE: 40 | 29 COMMENTS | 16994 VIEWS | IN 20 FOLDERS


Move to Moxfield —May 18, 2020

With the growing movement among cEDH players to move away from TappedOut to literally any other deck builder site I have moved all the decks i am actively maintaining to https://www.moxfield.com/users/firerif From now on any updates I make will be on that site rather then this one.

trancer99 says... #1

I really want to play this, but I do not understand how it wins...? Can you add a wincon section ?

October 19, 2019 10 a.m.

firerif says... #2

It’s at the bottom of the description. Basically you just draw your deck with labjace.

October 19, 2019 11:52 a.m.

create812 says... #3

I hadn't considered Gush, what's your reasoning for it being one of the better cards in the deck?

October 24, 2019 9:59 a.m.

firerif says... #4

Gush is one of the best enablers for getting through one of the most critical parts of the deck's play patterns; the time when Toothy is small enough to be removed without drawing 6+ cards. This is the most dangerous period for the deck as having Toothy removed at this time sets you back multiple turns in tempo loss. Recasting Toothy for 6 mana is painful. This is why the deck plays sub-optimal cantrips like careful study, tolarian winds, and thought scour. Just getting those initial counters on Toothy is so important. Gush does this extremely well, often being a fairly free way to draw 2 cards as once we land Toothy we don't need that much mana.

October 25, 2019 12:52 p.m.

create812 says... #5

I see, cards like Brainstorm and Cephalid Coliseum drawing 3 for a single U is big game here.

October 30, 2019 8:50 a.m.

create812 says... #6

How do you feel about Spark Double, and Hardened Scales? Doubling or tripling up on Pir's ability is gross. They're probably not suited for faster metas I suppose. I'm not usually facing fast and expensive decks, so I'm running them for now.

No Laboratory Maniac? I guess because you're super creature light due to running Pendrall Vale? But still, redundancy in win cons is important, no?

Also, you're missing Command Tower! Why not cut an Island for it? Also, any particular reason for the Snow-Covered lands? I'm running them mostly for Into the North (my list has a landfall sub-theme).

October 30, 2019 9:48 a.m.

create812 says... #7

How is Summer Bloom? The deck is so land light; is the idea that you'll draw so many cards that Summer Bloom is a nice one-off effect?

October 30, 2019 10:52 a.m.

firerif says... #8

Ok, lets go through this one at a time: Hardened Scales: Pir is actually very unimportant. Toothy gaining counters on his own is enough to win the game. You cast Pir when you can. But often you never even cast him. Hardened scales is a card you could play, but will often just be a dead card in hand or a useless card on the battlefield.

Spark Double: This card is way too expensive for its cost. Take a look at the deck's curve. The only card that actually costs more than 3 mana is the deck's main way of winning. Its just too slow to be a viable value engine.

Labman: No need. We have a back-up win-con using copy artifact on Isochron.

Islands: Basics are actually quite good. The type "island" is important for Gush and Mystic Sanctuary. And being basic is important both against opposing Blood Moons and our own Back to Basics.

Snow lands: Mainly bluff value. Mouth of Ronom is a card the deck could play, and the fact that you have snow basics means that theoretically your opponents should play around it.

Summer Bloom: Summer Bloom turns green and colorless into Blue mana during the storm turn. Blue mana is what the deck tends to run low on during storm turns.

October 30, 2019 7:39 p.m.

create812 says... #9

All good points. How is Copy Artifact on Isochron a win-con?

October 31, 2019 1:27 p.m.

create812 says... #10

Also, what does a storm turn look like for this deck? Cantriping, blinking toothy, and untapping your artifacts until you've drawn out?

October 31, 2019 1:45 p.m.

firerif says... #11

Copy artifact: assuming Iso-rev is already in play, you have infinite mana and infinite untaps. From there you can copy artifact isochron scepter, imprinting; winds of rebuke, swan song, narset’s reversal, or some other spell that with infinite casts should win the game.

Typical storm turn starts with flickering toothy with ~8 counters on it. From there you cast your fast mana, try to cast pir, and try to find more flicker effects. You cast the minimum number of cantrips possible, saving mana for actually storming. Mana is always the big holdup, so you may have to take lines where you tutor dramatic reversal and just cast it. Assembling Iso rev is convenient as a way to win when you are low on resources, or you have to play under taxing effects, but often without those taxing effects in play you can just use dramatic reversal as a ritual without much trouble.

November 3, 2019 10:22 a.m.

Magnivore says... #12

I love the deck! I've played it a number of times now to great success, and should even be published on YouTube sometime in the near-ish future! What I'm curious about is why does the deck not run Cyclonic Rift ? Blue in cEDH means a number of things to generally include Rift, so why not play it?

November 25, 2019 6:53 a.m.

firerif says... #13

Rift is fine but I personally dislike having bounce spells that can’t double as a way to bounce toothy as you don’t infrequently end up using your own bounce and kill spells on toothy as a way to initiate your storm turn. It’s probably correct to include it in more stax-y metas but being so low on tutors means that the deck can’t really make use of unique effects and if you’re just relying on drawing it at the right time it loses a lot of its power. And it’s non-overloaded effect just isn’t strong enough.

November 25, 2019 8:06 p.m.

Cazzeo says... #14

Are Baral or Jace VP any good here? Both can reactively draw to put a counter on Toothy while providing extra utility.

February 2, 2020 10:57 p.m.

Davidoff says... #15

I built the buget deck, Toothy Storm and I play with people who play competive magic and it works the most of the time

February 9, 2020 8:32 a.m.

firerif says... #16

JVP is fine. It was early builds of the list. Part of the issue is that there aren’t really too many spells you want to flashback. He’s honestly better as a creature than as a walker. I don’t think I would play him alongside cursed totem so if that’s a card you want to be playing I wouldn’t play jace.

Baral in the other hand is pretty mopey. It realistically discounts about 15 spells in the deck and that’s kinda too low.

February 9, 2020 12:56 p.m.

mossy66779 says... #17

Jace over Thassa's oracle? thought since its cheaper it would be better? Or have you not updated the list also would upping the islands for high tide be any good time spiral seems pretty decent and snap can return toothy!

February 12, 2020 4:22 a.m.

Farycane says... #18

Great Decklist! :) Maybe it's just my Meta, but with Thassa's Oracle (should totally play this, you have instant effects for Toothy) but Tale's End does great work. Keeps commanders away, counters Thassa etc.

Laboratory Maniac personally I often have Jace in the last maybe 10 cards in the Library and Toothy with too many counters. having another way was a good choice for mne

I play Fated Infatuation//Cackling Counterpart for the Phantasmal image due to being instant.

Cyclonic Rift was already suggested, but in my Meta you need quite much interaction to stay in the game. You can't bound Toothy but this still destroys turns and wins

Azor's Gateway  Flip don't mind the exile, works great most times you have tons of cards and only one landdrop. With IsoRev filters through your deck without decking from a too big Toothy

Extract Having Omnipresent Oracles and more consitent Decks, this stops wins for 1 Mana

Perilous ResearchInstant 2 mana 2 cards for sacing your worst permanent. or Sacing Toothy to get more crads (The 2 from Perilous research won't count if you sac toothy, tho)

Overburden Even with Labman and Oracle in my deck, nearly doesn't harm you at all but, again, destroys Elfballs, TnT , Chulane etc

I still do play Mox opal, but often stuck without Metalcraft early.

Mystical dispute is great against blue spells. But really far from a good counter in any other case. Tale's End made it in for me

Personally I also really dislike Pact of Negation, having a Pact but Knowing you can't pay it makes it a feelsbad card for me. Free counter is great, but Losing isn't.

Careful Study went out for Perilous research, due to being Sorcery.

Copy Artifact Often relies on opponents. Maybe I'm missing something here, but a second Isochron is often Winmore for me.

i really love your deck, and I like the faces of new players in the LGS underestimating Toothy :D

Keep going!

February 12, 2020 4 p.m.

firerif says... #19

Oracle is not gonna make the list. It's too hard to consistently draw exactly your entire deck. We don't have tainted pact or consult to create an A+B combo and most of the time when we win its by drawing 30 cards from a 15 size library.

Tales End is another potential piece of interaction. It's fine. I'm not thrilled about it in a blind meta but if your meta is very dependent on expensive commanders it seems reasonable.

LabMan is an alternative to copy artifact. I ran into having Jace exiled a few too many times and decided the deck needed a backup. So the backup is copy artifact on scepter kills. And outside of the combo copy artifact is just another 2 mana rock most of the time which is better than gray ogre.

The instant speed clone spells are fine, but worse than Displace which already doesn't make the cut given its mana cost. As far as storm turns go its more important that your draw effects are cheap and colored mana light. PI is also just a fine rate as a value creature- bob is a good card, and copying someone else's bob is good too.

Cyc Rift is good. I'm on submerge in my personal list rn as a single target removal. The deck is generally just good at going over the top anyway so its not very important to have access to its overload.

Gateway seems like a good effect, but feels too expensive.

Extract is a meme. If you start playing it people will start playing labman and blanking the spell.

Perilous Research seems fine. I don't like it over careful study, but it seems like a fine addition if you're trying to play more at instant speed.

Overburden is fine if your meta is good for it. It doesn't effect this deck, but the concern is that it also doesn't effect the standard 4c midrange pile enough. Hulk only needs 1U to win.

Mopal makes storm better. It's not amazing, but it is important.

Dispute is a auto include if you have gilded drakes in your meta. Countering gilded drake for 1 mana is huge. Very little else does that. To the point where I have seriously considered Spell Snare.

Free countermagic is nice. Misdirection is probably making the list in the next update. I understand pact can be frustrating, but it is really nice to have for proactive lines.

February 12, 2020 6:27 p.m.

HItzel says... #20

I've noticed that this deck is able to use Ghostly Flicker targeting Mystic Sanctuary and Toothy to flicker Toothy and redraw Ghostly Flicker to repeat. Does this make things like High Tide and Baral worth reconsidering?

Mystic Sanctuary puts a lot of pressure on your mana base, right? I figure that there must be good reasons to include it if that's the case, so is being able to "combo" Ghostly Flicker and Mystic Sanctuary one of those good reasons?

Curious about this interaction in general if you have any other thoughts about it. Cheers!

February 24, 2020 9:51 a.m.

Caithness says... #21

What do you think of Spellskite?

February 28, 2020 6 p.m.