Also Exploration is essentially free, because it gives extra land drop turn you play it. During your next turn you get to play two lands more. Burgeoning gives extra mana to your next turn only, if you have at least 4 land cards in hand after playing Burgeoning/Exploration or 3 land cards in hand and top deck 1 more. Even then Burgeoning isn't necessary better, because Exploration pays itself for turn you play it, but you don't get mana from Burgeoning until next turn.

I'll submit the first of three Teeg decks. I have two other styles I use. But I'll have them linked separately.Gaddock "Hatebear" Teeg

I think Thalia, Heretic Cathar. is tier 3 or 4. It can't deal with tier 1 decks, but in casual meta it could do fine depending from how greedy landbases people are playing. According to my own experiences in casual EDH games about half of the decks loses to single Blood Moon, Torpor Orb, Rest in Peace or another cheap piece of hate. Thalia, Heretic Cathar in postCataclysm board, Thalia, Heretic Cathar gives decent tempo advantage in rebuilding board especially, if you're the one playing cataclysm and only one who have prepared for it.

Lilbrudder

I'm not offended in the least. I said she's a strong contender, not necessarily perfect tier one. And I do know the power of Mana Crypt. I have used it in Prossh to devastating effect.

Here's the turn two win: Exploration into 2 lands and mana dork (or GSZ into dryad arbor). Turn 2, play Lotus Cobra. Play a fetch, use fetch, get a land. 3 mana. Play Earthcraft and win on the spot. I know I'm missing something there, but no worries. There's ways to do dumb things with Earthcraft. And I know it can all occur on turn 1 too with a single mana crypt.

As for the turn 2 win, if I get it, I will get it. And any deck could do that. That alon doesn't make her tier 1 worthy. What makes her tier 1 worthy is her versatility. I know about artifact ramp and it works quite well. But is it enough to be worthy? Nah... I dislike Sol Ring. I find it useless if I draw it after turn 1. And it does nothing to help cast a turn 2 Marath.

But I digress, Marath is a very strong tier 2, close to a tier 1. And I prefer to play with ramp by way of lands. :P

Yup sorry I missed her!!!

I am going to put her tier 4 for now until we get more experience/discussion with her. But I think she would be far better in the 99 to be honest.

Agreed... Thalia is a super bear. She'd be perfect in my Teeg deck. She's a good anti nonbasic and creature strategy. Can buy time... As for tier worthiness.... I'd consider her around a 3 based on the ability to Voltron her up and slow everyone else down by at least a turn. I'd put her in a shell with Armageddon, Blood Moon, or the like... Maybe a meekstone style deck you can win. I'd place her in the top...

Null Rod and the like would love her. Winter Orb would love her. Tangle Wire would love her.

Yeah, maybe the fact that Moggcatcher does nothing until I untap with it is gonna limit its usefulness. Simple fix, Imperial Recruiter back in.

As for your deck, I chose to cut the spells that are only good when you have lots of creatures since they're dependent on having a lot of creatures. Now, I'm not quite sure what cards you are playing or not playing due to budget, but Blood Moon effects are super useful, since 2/3 of all EDH decks, and probably 9/10 cEDH decks, are multicolored.

Anyways, I'd love to continue the conversation on either of our deckpages, so tag me if you want to bounce some ideas around.

Hey guys, MTGGoldfish uploaded a Competitive Commander game here. I haven't watched it yet, so I can't comment on the quality of gameplay (though it is likely not 100% correct).

Keep up the great work. I have enjoyed and learned a lot from the discussions held here :)

@merrowMania watching it now. The sheer number of misplays are almost physically painful. Still an interesting resource though.

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I'm watching it now too. I just came back to apologize to everyone for linking this video. I'm going to go cry in my shame corner after maybe finishing the video XP

I'm sorry...VERY sorry.

Though it is extremely painful to watch, it still shows the power of one of the decks (and maybe Yisan).

kayakenobi: Dude, that's not an infinite combo...

I even playtested your deck to make sure I wasn't missing something, Earthcraft + Marath only gets you as many tokens as there are counters on Marath. Then Marath dies and you need the mana to recast her at a higher rate, which you won't have until the next turn when all your shit untaps, and even then your gonna run out after casting Marath once or twice.

Plus the "turn 2 win" you just claimed made no mention of Impact Tremors or Purphoros, nor would you have the mana to cast them that turn. Also, it required 7 different specific cards.

I once made a Heartless Hidetsugu deck that had a more plausible turn 2 win than that.

@sonnet666 - Maybe there was an assumption that somehow Marath for 0 was legal/could do something?

@kayakenobi - As far as I can tell, the only infinite combos are those that involve Kiki-Jiki. There is not even a way to go infinite with Earthcraft in the rest of the deck.

Also, @NarejED, I just finished the video...I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

Why did I watch that? It was painful... even each of their turn 1's was hard to watch.

Yeah, 2 things; 1 Marath has errata text adding "X can't be 0". 2 if a 0/0 enters you can't tap it with earthcraft since it dies to state based actions before any player receives priority.

One thing marath DOES have access to is Mana Echoes and if you had a way to filter the mana THAT could go infinite early on but doubtful on T2 and even then ONLY in magical Christmas land.

Recently, there's been a lot of brewing centered around General Tazri. This mainly attributed to her excellent interaction with Food Chain. Thanks to Misthollow Griffin or the new Eternal Scourge, she's able to generate infinite mana of any color (that can only be used to cast creatures). She can then tutor up Kalastria Healer or Hagra Diabolist off her ability, and be repeatedly cast from the command zone off of FC sacs to ping all opponents to death. I believe ShaperSavant's brew Food Chain Tazri is currently the best iteration of the deck. Based on it's performance, I believe Tazri should be moved up to Tier 2.

I believe your momir list is out of date, I was trying to check it for suggestions and it is from 2014 and still runs prophet of kruphix.

@Leinahtan - I'm sorry :.C

merrowMania -

Very true. If you don't take things like Mirari's Wake into account. Told you I was missing something somewhere. There's other ways... But yes, Magical Christmas land.... It has plenty of ways to soft lock and hard lock. I just don't understand why you are taking offense to my mentioning it's a contender. Can it draw millions of cards? Yes. Can it go infinite on the turn of a dime? Yes. I've used Skyshroud Elf to provide any color mana from Echoes and bounced things with Temur Sabertooth infinite times because I could. I've done all kinds of things with it. I've run it as a hatebears lockout variant. I've run it as control with things like Living Plane and Linvala with Aura Shards. I've even played a weird Naya walker deck that was fun. And that's the point.... Control could be anything, just as GR Tron is a control deck in Modern, you'd suspect Naya doing the same thing would be too. Kiki Chord. Hardened Scales. Earthcraft and Mana Echoes. Earthcraft and Mirari's Wake. Earthcraft and Ashnod's Altar. It's all possible. Course the same is said about Prossh. I have my ultra stupid decks that I only play with once in a while, like Prossh, Animar, and Gaddock Teeg. But it's far more satisfying to lock down an entire board with Tangle Wire and Smoke Stack with Doubling Season and Marath. My current incarnation is more "fair" without the hard and soft locks, without all the combos, and without all the stax effects. Of course, when I'm sitting at a table, I like to be nonthreatening while everyone goes after the blue mage. Once they turn their back on me, I strike hard, fast, and try to make sure I can do it well.

That's the point I'm making, nothing more. After all, the average turns I do close out games is around turn 4 or 5 unless I'm taking up the role of machine gun. >.> Don't look at me like that... I'd much prefer playing Pheldagriff, but most people like to target a group hug player that has absolutely no win condition available except in the most roundabout ways such as giving out 500 hippos and casting The Great Aurora

As for the Edric, sonnet666 has a point. I've seen decks like Edric's Rogue Faeries in our groups. There's one persone who runs a very similar list, but running cards like Endless One and Hangarback Walker as well while also using Fecundity, Vile Redeemer, and Creeping Renaissance.

Also, taking a third look at Thalia, Heretic Cathar.

Not sure if anyone has pointed these out and I've been bouncing ideas around my head. I'm missing something... Ok, Crackdown. Reverence. Complete lockdown for you. Stops a lot of creature based combo decks. Of course, we all knew this. So, How to make Thalia so brutal? The fact she has access to all kinds of kismet-like abilities. The fact she can screw with nonbasic manabases makes her golden. The rest of the deck revolves around a more focused mindset of using only the best hate from Cursed Totem to Null Rod. Or using Suppression Field, Hokori, Dust Drinker, Winter Orb, or the like. Packed with all the removal, Thalia can be one of those generals that might make people ragequit after dropping her on turn 1 followed up by a string of I hate having friends cards to truly get the point across. I like her... Only time will tell, but she's in the single-most efficient color for the best hate of every kind available including Council's Judgment with a few obvious combos once your locks are established.

@kayakenobi - I did take into account things like Mirari's Wake and whatnot. There just don't appear to be all the piece you are mentioning in your deck (at least the one you linked). I was just curious how you get a turn two win, even with Magical Christmas land. I'm not taking offense to Marath being suggested; I was just curious about the reason you gave. If my comment seemed harsh, I apologize, and will try to tone down my responses from now on.

Of the cards you listed in your response, Sabertooth, Mana Echoes, Altar, and Doubling Season were not in the deck you linked. I was only trying to go infinite with the decklist provided, not find ways to add to make it go infinite (otherwise all decklists go infinite always). Would you mind pointing out to me how the decklist wins on turn two?

Is it me or Food Chain makes for pretty broken strategies? Just get a deck with acces to both blue and green (to add Misthollow Griffin) and the new eldrazi (Eternal Scourge), then a commander with a decent ETB, then you got yourself a good deck? Am I wrong?

Also, just read about NarejED's comment about General Tazri and I remember the Prime Speaker Zegana thing, move them both tier 2?

thegigibeast, it could be, but I really think the deck needs white or black to be able to tutor for Food Chain since blue and green can't really tutor for enchantments (although Drift of Phantasms is pretty good in this situation). Other than that, I think it could lead to some pretty nasty decks.

Zegana is already Tier 2.

I've seen Maelstrom Wanderer food chain just to get 8 cascade triggers in one go on an opponent's end step.

Yep MagicalHacker you're true... I just thaught about it, could Sidisi, Brood Tyrant do something out of Food Chain?