Mistakes have been made. Kaalia of the Vast seems to have been accidentially demoted to Tier 3?

I like and agree with what it says in the update about the constant and tiresome debate over 6 tiers. However, it still has 6 tiers in the description. Is there a reason for that? Is there still some confusion as to what each tier is for?

The Gitrog Monster. dude. its in the data base already. and I think we all know it should be at least tier 2 thats to its stunning efficiency and insane amount of already built decks.

at least put it SOMEWHERE.

Ok DERPLINGSUPREME, it is now time to place the new commanders! Except for the frog ehich is going tier 2, what with the other ones?

Archangel Avacyn  ^Flip: Tier 4. Her EtB ability is nice, but not amazing. Her flip ability is rather awful and can cost her games. It's very easy for opponents to kill her at at any time, potentially wiping her entire board.

Odric, Lunarch Marshal: Tier 4. He an do some silly shenanigans when built around thanks to an abundance of cheap creatures that have double strike and other key words, but overall he's not great. Certainly not worthy of being in the same tier as Rafiq of the Many.

Olivia, Mobilized for War: Tier 4, possibly 3. The haste enabler is great. It doesn't look like madness will be too good in EDH though, so the discard clause is rather backbreaking, especially when Rakdos's strongest draw spell is Necropotence.

Sigarda, Heron's Grace: Tier 3. Not as strong as her previous incarnation, but she's decent. She has relevant abilities. She'd be better if her token generation clause didn't require a card to be exiled, thus allowing her to be an infinite mana outlet. Despite that, she can still swarm the field. As is, she's at the lower end of our current Tier 3.

While sigarda's ability does require an exile it's important to note that her ability doesn't discriminate what card types can be exiled which is nice.

As it stands I'm imagining a Intangible Virtue/Beastmaster Ascension style of swarm deck that uses the green to fuel the grave. Cards like Mulch, Crop Rotation, Life from the Loam and maybe even Commune with the Gods to dig for important pieces.

Earthcraft would also be able to do some good as well as Cryptolith Rite to ramp into something like craterhoof.

I feel like the new Olivia, Mobilized for War could be tier 3 with some kind of reanimation effects. You could use her discard effect to throw some cards from your hand into your graveyard then reanimate them. Not the best strategy since it requires them being in your hand, but it could make for some interesting shenanigans. Especially when combined with the haste. Again, is it great? Meh, not really. But I can definitely see it working enough to be on the lower or middle end of tier 3.

Reanimate something nasty, pitch something else nasty to give haste.

It's a bit christmaslandy but it could work.

Olivia, Mobilized for War, is T3. I've mentioned this before. She makes a great reanimation general since she's a discard outlet and a haste granter for reanimated fatties. Some decks actually need discard outlets more than they need card advantage (Non-combo Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is another example), and if you're worried about running out of cards to pitch, you can always devote 3 to 5 slots to do-nothing enablers like Squee, Goblin Nabob. In fact, some of those enablers even play well into your strategy, like Oversold Cemetery.

She enables fun things like turn 4 Kozileks and Blightsteels with haste. And no, they don't have to be in your hand to start out with, black and red have more than enough tutors and self mill to make it consistent.

Also, just throwing this out there, I'm working on a version of The Gitrog Monster that I think will qualify it for Tier 1. Every combo list for Gitrog I've looked at so far has not been utilizing it to its full potential. (The ones running over 50 lands are particularly painful to look at.) It's not ready yet, so we should probably put him in T2 for now; I just thought I'd mention it so you'll all know it's out there... lurking. (Also, I'm not planning on actually building or playing the deck, so this isn't a break of rule 1.)

Ok, I wasn't thinking when I said Kozileks and Blightsteels. Scratch that. I'm sure there are other things that are scary enough on turn 4 with haste.

I would shit myself if Sheoldred, Whispering One said hello to everyone on turn 3-4 because of Olivia, Mobilized for War. Skittles too. Could enable some possible Phaging shenanigans. If you're really sneaky, you could use it for Cheatyface. The possibilities are endless.

The only ways Phage would work would be Torpor Orb or Sundial of the Infinite. One is counter-productive to the deck, and the other is useless most of the time.

Off the top of my head, some of the best targets would be, Sholdred (though in my experience people remove her nearly instantly in the early game), It That Betrays, Baleful Force, Balefire Dragon, Dragon Mage, Hellkite Tyrant, Lord of the Void, Ob Nixilis, Unshackled, Pathrazer of Ulamog, Rune-Scarred Demon, Void Winnower, and Sire Of Insanity. I'd back up the deck with more engine-y reanimation effects, decent vampire effects, and symmetrical discard.

Still think it's T3.

I think he means you can cast Phage and give her haste, which isn't really sneaky but can catch people off-guard.

Well, I guess since Hatred was already a thing it might be worthwhile...

Ok, I can see her going up to tier 3, updating now!

I am also working on a The Gitrog Monster deck, and I would like to push it as far as possible. Maybe it could be tier 1, or very, very strong tier 2... Don't you mind taking a look at the documentation I am putting togheter and try to make it even better? Maybe like this we will be able to push it to the top!!!

B/G Graveyard Combo Deck

Ways to put the entire deck into the graveyard:

• Basalt Monolith + Mesmeric Orb

• The Gritog Monster + Dakmor Salvage + Discard Outlet

• ***The Gritog Monster + Dredge Card + Discard Outlet

• ***Hermit Druid

***This combo is the less stable in the deck, so it will require some cards that might be able to restart the dredge chain in case we dont hit any lands Hermit Druid could also be included in the deck, but in order to combo off, it would require your deck to have no basic lands, so fetchlands would be impossible to use, because they would only have two targets up to now. It could still be possible, because there should be enough nonbasics

Combos once everything is in the graveyard:

• ***Dread Return + Necrotic Ooze + Devoted Druid + Quillspike + Bloodrite Invoker

• ***Dread Return + Necrotic Ooze + Pili-Pala + Palladium Myr + Bloodrite Invoker

• Dread Return + Eternal Witness + Victimize + Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion

• Dread Return + Eternal Witness + Victimize + Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord + Lord of Extinction

***Those two combos will require Necrotic Ooze to have haste to be able to tap for mana first, so you will need to have something to give it haste from the graveyard (since at this point all the deck will be in the graveyard, and waiting for an haste card in hands is way too inconsistent).

Cards to give haste to Necrotic Ooze from the graveyard:

• Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon

• Thornling

Discard Outlets:

• Putrid Imp

• Oblivion Crown

• Oonas Prowler

• Wild Mongrel

• ***Zombie Infestation

• Patchwork Gnomes

• Trespasser il-Vec

• Earsplitting Rats

• ***Volraths Dungeon

• Skirge Familiar

• Tunneler Wurm

• ***Murderers Axe

***Those cards are some worse discard outlets that might not be good enough to consider. Zombie Infestation is good, but requires two cards, so even if you get tokens to feed Dread Return you will end up with no cards in hands, so maybe you will not be able to dredge enough Volraths Dungeon is worse because anyone can get rid of it, and it is sorcery speed Murderers Axe is an equipment with the equip cost of discarding a card, so it would work only at sorcery speed and would require two creatures on the battlefield to work

Dredge Cards:

• Dakmor Salvage

• Darkblast

• Golgari Brownscale

• Golgari Grave-Troll

• Golgari Thug

• Grave-Shell Scarab

• Greater Mossdog

• Life from the Loam

• Moldervine Cloak

• Necroplasm

• Nightmare Void

• Shambling Shell

• Stinkweed Imp

Tutors to get any land (mainly for Dakmor Salvage):

• ***Realms Uncharted

• Sylvan Scrying

• ***Crop Rotation

• Expedition Map

***Those cards can either help me get the land in play/in my hands or can put it into the graveyard. They can be good to get Dakmor Salvage, because it doesnt matter if it is put into the graveyard this way. They can also be used to get some other good lands in the deck.

Tutors to put cards into my graveyard:

• Entomb

• ***Buried Alive

• ***Realms Uncharted

• ***Jarads Orders

• ***Corpse Connoisseur

• ***Survival of the Fittest

• ***Fauna Shaman

***Those cards can only get specific types of permanents into your graveyard, but they help putting specific combo pieces to win faster. Buried Alive will get you three creatures, so you can almost combo after it resolves, no need to put the entire deck into the graveyard. Realms Uncharted will get you 2 lands in hands and 2 in the graveyard, so you should try putting Dakmor Salvage in, with 3 cycling lands Jarads Orders is probably the best one, get a dredge creature (Golgari Grave-Troll) into the graveyard and a discard outlet (Putrid Imp) into your hand to combo on the spot. Corpse Connoisseur can only get one creature at the time, but it can be used twice, and can also be flashbacked to be sacrificed to Dread Return as the third creature. Survival of the Fittest can accomplish something similar to Jarads Orders, discard dredge creatures to get some discard outlets and combo off. Fauna Shaman is like a worse version of Life from the Loam, but with the right cards in hands, a single activation is required

Ways to restart the chain from the graveyard:

• ***Phantasmagorian

• ***Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord

***Phantasmagorian would require you to have at least 3 cards in your hands to bring it back from the graveyard, and at least one should be a land to be able to restart the chain. Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord requires you to have 2 basics in play, but it is also a creature that is involved in some combos, and it can be a great creature on its own.

Good lands with synergies/restart the chain:

• Fetchlands (Polluted Delta, Bloodstained Mire, Wooded Foothills, Windswept Heath, Misty Rainforest, Verdant Catacombs, Marsh Flats)

• Cycling lands (Polluted Mire, Slippery Karst, Blasted Landscape, Barren Moor, Tranquil Thicket)

• Drownyard Temple

• Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (Good in any commander deck running black, really Urborg will also help you fix your black mana, which is quite handy some times)

A card that I've been liking is Whip of Erebos for Necrotic Ooze shenanigans. It Reanimates and grants haste. Granted, it's 8 mana to play and activate in the same turn but hey, redundancy.

Thanks, adding it to the documentation.

Along the same note of Whip, the origins walkers play pretty nicely with whip. Specifically Jace. In my Sidisi deck I have whipped Jace back, activated him, discarded Living Death and flipped him, then -3 to cast living death.

Nissa and Liliana are nice as well, lili's + is great as a discard but it's only once per turn.

@thegigibeast thats a lot of discard outlets, imo. I'd replace some with normal tutors, and stuff like Titania, Protector of Argoth is good to provide an alternative win condition.

also, you need to have Dakmor Salvage to actually flip your deck with a discard outlet, not just any dredge card since the draw only triggers with land.

aside from that, it looks pretty much identical to what I've done with it, and it will work very well.

yay, this is not an actual decklist, this is only documentation for now, I am still putting ideas on this list. Anything you input will be written!

Somewhat relevant, but have either of you seen cEDH's 'Brewsday Tuesday' Gitrog Monster decklist? It's not fully optimized, but thus far, it's the strongest build I've seen. Link

thegigibeast

Loving the Gitrog Input -- I've been playing around with a build that uses the spellshapers -- Undertaker, Greenseeker, Ridged Kusite and Silverglade Pathfinder -- I know they're no Wild Mongrel or Oona's Prowler since they're one-and-done as opposed to infinite discard, but I think they at least need to be considered for some kind of role, even if it's just options. Thoughts?

thegigibeast

Loving the Gitrog discussion -- I've been playing around with a build that uses the spellshapers -- Undertaker, Greenseeker, Ridged Kusite and Silverglade Pathfinder -- I know they're no Wild Mongrel or Oona's Prowler since they're one-and-done as opposed to infinite discard, but I think they at least need to be considered for some kind of role, even if it's just options. Thoughts?

NarejED, that build is pretty much what mine looks like, but I think they are making it overly complicated. Once you get a dredge loop going, you can just keep looping until you can draw your whole deck, discard Koz until you clear the extra triggers, and combo out from there.

They also have a bit more control cards than I think is necessary, some of their discard outlets are sub-par, and they're missing some of the best tutors. They also need to include both Ulamog AND Kozilek, because right now the combo will suicide you if someone instant-speed exiles your yard in response to Koz's trigger.

thegigibeast, Ohthenoises, Despite what I talked about earlier, it turns out trying to combo with Necrotic Ooze is actually detrimental to the deck as a whole. It requires to many card slots, and when you're using the Kozilek dredge loop, there's no point anyway since all the cards are winding up in your hand.

DERPLINGSUPREME, actually, any dredger will work. With 40% land, you're almost guaranteed to hit at least one whenever you dredge, and if you don't you can always discard an extra land to try again. Even if you start with Life from the Loam, you're pretty much always going to dredge into your better cards.

Skulloelegy, I don't think the spellshapers are really going to work out here. Yeah, they let you discard, but not as freely as a standard outlet, and unfortunately none of their effects are really good enough to run. I liked Silverglade Pathfinder, but the ramp turned out to just be too slow for a dedicated combo build.