Liquidbeaver's Liquimetal Prison

Modern Liquidbeaver

SCORE: 78 | 46 COMMENTS | 6676 VIEWS | IN 26 FOLDERS


Liquidbeaver says... #1

Trying to decide on what should sit in the Stone Rain slot. Possibly Molten Rain for a little bit more damage, especially if I manage to ultimate Wrenn and Six . Shenanigans also looks interesting, but is maybe more of a sideboard cards against very heavy artifact decks, as I already have 9 artifact removal spells. I would prefer something that I could cascade into.

Let me know if you have any ideas!

May 31, 2019 5:05 p.m.

FUKKEN' Amazing description, dude! I laughed hard! Gonna do a shameless self-plug here and venture that you might find some inspiration, or at least a bit of a laugh at my deck: You know what that also is?... An artifact!. Stay frosty!

June 2, 2019 1:22 a.m.

BroadScholar says... #3

How do you feel about Geomancer’s Gambit in the stone rain slot? I'm so unsure about that card. I think it could be good but I don't know if I'd really count it as land destruction.

Also, I'm sure you've already considered Myr Landshaper but I figured I'd throw it out there.

The deck looks fun though. +1 for the name and description alone haha

June 2, 2019 5:17 p.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #4

The7thBobba Thanks! I'll definitely check it out!

BroadScholar I'd considered it, but at the time I didn't have the Stone Rain in so it wasn't good enough. I've noticed during playtesting though that I like getting the basic lands out, because it gives me great targets to Splinter and totally ruin their gameplan. I can also judge their hand based on the type of basic they keep trying to grab, and push against that color some more. I'm gonna give this a try and see how it plays, definitely wouldn't be bad to have in the GY if I can ever ultimate Wrenn.

I haven't really played with Myr Landshaper since my first mono-green deck, and even though I miss having an almost 5th Liquimetal, I think the defense is just too low. I would have loved for a 0/2 or 0/3 even. I would be curious though how having one in the side would be, or even having an Liquimetal in the side to grab with Karn, and a Landshaper in its spot. I think I would need another piece of two of artifact destruction to take fool advantage of it though, which makes me lean towards the one-of Shenanigans even more.

June 2, 2019 6:21 p.m.

BroadScholar says... #5

I feels ya. Gambit seems better as a sideboard card to deal with tron. And I agree, Landshaper is weak. Dies to Noble Hierarch haha

I'm exited for Shenanigans . Automatic sideboard card in my 8-whack deck. And it seems like this deck can utilize it even better. It'd be a cool one-of in place of an Abrade .

I should mention Into the Core is a personal favorite sideboard card against Welding Jar . I guess you're already running Splinter which is probably better, but it's something to consider.

Good luck with this deck. Make people tilt!

June 3, 2019 1:17 a.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #6

Still going back and forth on a few slots:

Stone Rain / Molten Rain / Shenanigans / Structural Distortion as a 1-of. Really don't know which direction to go with this. Something I can cascade into (which can only target one permanent type), or something cascade misses that can hit a lot more things, with a little burn attached to it?

Also the Talisman of Impulse . Really not sure about this slot, but after looking at a lot of ponza lists it seems like this slot needs to be ramp of some sort (Birds maybe).

It's going to take a lot of playtesting to figure out these narrow questions probably.

June 6, 2019 4:27 p.m. Edited.

Liquidbeaver says... #7

Testing out Tireless Tracker to see if it helps me grind out games.

June 11, 2019 11:08 a.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #8

Dropped two Ghost Quarter to get 2 more Prismatic Vista . Fetches are just a much better target for Boom/bust, Wrenn and Six , and play better with Tireless Tracker (who still needs more testing).

Ending up switching the numbers of W6 with Karn, as well as moved a LMC to the side. This should help balance the deck performance at all stages of the game.

June 12, 2019 7:33 p.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #9

Dropped Blast Zone for a third Ghost Quarter . This could easily be a third Stomping grounds, but with a Ponza style ramp package, Blast Zone on 1 is much less effective as it was in my other decks.

June 12, 2019 10:16 p.m.

Snowmen1 says... #10

I should be studying for finals, but it looks like now I'm going to be organizing a class action lawsuit for property damage. Really like that Wrenn and Six is being used in this deck. Big thing that you didnt mention in your description is that you can target one of your fetch lands with Boom / Bust , and then sacrifice them in response. I would reconsider not playing Blast Zone not only can you constantly remove your opponents things, but you can just use it with a Tireless Tracker to get a clue every turn. Anyways nice deck. Upvoted.

June 16, 2019 6:19 p.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #11

Snowmen1 Hahaha, that is great to hear!

Wrenn and Six I feel is really under-utilized so far. Maybe it will take longer for more decks to adopt it, but all I have really seen it in is Loam and some fringe Ponza decks. It is so, so strong, and I really feel like it alone enabled the early game that a LMC/Karn endgame sort of deck needed.

Thanks for mentioning the fetches. I said it in a comment, but don't have it in a description, and it is definitely one of the strongest early game plays in the decks.

I really liked Blast Zone before, but now that I actually have 1 drops it is harder to swing. That being said, the different between 2 GC's and a BZ, versus 3 GC isn't much, so that is definitely up to personal preference or meta. Definitely going to be playtesting both.

June 19, 2019 12:04 a.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #12

Looking into Hexdrinker as my "must-answer" growable threat. I think it has a lot of potential, but it would be in a really contentious slot ( Tireless Tracker ), so I really am not sure without more playtesting.

June 19, 2019 12:05 a.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #13

Playtesting splashing black for Kolaghan's Command , less painful Surgical Extraction , and also potential goodies like Assassin's Trophy , Maelstrom Pulse , and Nihil Spellbomb .

June 20, 2019 5:40 p.m.

FullmetalWes says... #14

Has Ancient Grudge been suggested?

June 27, 2019 2:56 p.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #15

FullmetalWes: I Ancient Grudge used to be the core of the deck (many versions ago). Once Abrade was released I ran a playset of each and that worked well for a long time. Then with MH came Pillage and Shenanigans , and while Pillage's modality fit the deck better than a playset of Grudges, I still liked being able to get repeated casts, which in my deck is just something Shenanigans does better, even though it is a sorcery (also why it is only a 1-of).

I originally wasn't sure if Shenanigans would play out how I wanted, but after a bunch of playtesting giving up a draw to Vindicate the opponent every turn is just sooo powerful, almost no matter what the boardstate is. It's up there with getting a Strip Mine every turn with LMC and Karn out at the same time.

I would say if someone played a version of this that was faster and not meant to be really grindy, then Grudge would be more appropriate for quick back-to-back removal

June 27, 2019 4:11 p.m.

Saljen says... #17

Why Liquimetal Coating in the main board? It's only relevant once Karn hits the field. Feels like a waste of 3 mainboard slots.

July 1, 2019 5:25 p.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #18

Saljen: It combos with Abrade , Pillage , and Shenanigans to destroy any permanent. That makes 13 mainboard cards (including Karn) and 1 sideboard card ( Phyrexian Metamorph ) that it combos with. 5 of those are repeatable each turn, not including what you can recast if you enable Retrace with Wrenn and Six .

July 1, 2019 5:36 p.m.

You're playing the Amulet Titan ramp package with only 21 lands instead of 28. I highly recommend changing your ramp package to match that of most Ponza decks. Arbor Elf , Utopia Sprawl , and maybe Birds of Paradise .

July 3, 2019 4:06 p.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #20

ToolmasterOfBrainerd: Amulet Titan requires at least 6 more lands than I do to feed Titans, extra Azusa, and some number of Explore . Since my payoff is different, it can run a lot leaner on lands. I won't ever need to grab 4 lands for a single Titan, more if I have to attack with it again, so already we are down to 22-24 lands removing that requirement. I also don't need multiple Tolaria West as I'm only grabbing specific lands, EE, or Ballista with it, not also a playset of Summoner's Pact and a Pact of Negation for the decks running it. I keep going back and forth between 21 and 22 lands, but any more than that and I am flooded most games and topdecking lands far too often.

In the update just below the decklist I mention that I just came off a Ponza ramp package. While it was more resilient to Blood Moon, it was slower, easier to disrupt, and more suited for out-valuing an opponent than it is for creating a huge amount of mana. That value generation is also why the BBE is so important, as well as the 6+ LD spells.

Amulet ramp leads to much more busted turns, makes it easier to T2 Karn, and Sakura-Tribe Scout works a lot better with Wrenn and Six and the Ghost Quarter s than the Ponza ramp did.

July 3, 2019 4:35 p.m. Edited.

clayperce says... #21

Liquidbeaver,
Came for the Land Destruction, but stayed for the write-up. Huge +1 from me, and I'd give more if I could.

I can't even begin to evaluate the deck though tbh ... I'll have to rent it on MTGO sometime and try it out before I could give you any serious thoughts. But if you haven't already shared this over at r/PonzaMTG, I'd strongly recommend doing so.

Best of luck (and skill) with the brew!

July 6, 2019 11:29 p.m.

Liquidbeaver my concern is that your opening hand will never have enough lands in it for the ramp package to work as well as it is supposed to. Isn't Azusa best when you can play 3 lands per turn for 2 turns in a row? Amulet titan's ideal hand is 6 ways to make mana and 1 way to find a Titan. Your deck (in my understanding - correct if I'm wrong) wants to draw more than 1 payoff card, which means you don't want hands with 6 ways to make mana. Consequently, a ramp package that requires you to have tons of lands is not going to be as effective.

Turn 2 Karn is actually a tiny bit easier with the ponza ramp package. I believe the only turn 2 Karn with the amulet package is turn 1 Sakura-Tribe Scout followed by turn 2 Amulet of Vigor and playing the same bounceland twice. This requires 2 specific cards, plus a bounceland. You can also turn 2 Karn by playing turn 1 Arbor Elf , turn 2 Utopia Sprawl , and tapping the Sprawled land twice for 4 mana. Similarly, it requires 2 specific cards.

In my opinion, the upside of the ponza ramp is that you get a lot more turn 2 Pillage s.

All of that said, I totally recognize that I have never played the deck. I just want to get my concerns heard. I do see the upsides to the Amulet package. You can get to Karn + Liquimetal a lot faster, and the synergy with Wrenn and Six is very real.

Good luck with the deck. It's sweet.

July 7, 2019 12:56 a.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #23

ToolmasterOfBrainerd: I had the same worry, but with playtesting so far the only major thing I have to pay attention to is mulliganing to some form of T1 ramp or Stirrings (always) and my land sequencing. After speaking with a few people in the Amulet Titan sub and facebook page they mentioned that having at least 8 bouncelands was more imperative than a lot of other things as far as the lands were concerned, and they were right. The way it playtests with 8 bouncelands is drastically different than 6.

The thing about Azusa is that while you do want to play 3 lands a turn for 2 turns in a row, a lot of the time it's the same bounceland coming back to your hand, even if that means you didn't "leave" an additional land on the battlefield at the end of the turn. For instance you can:

T1: Basic land, tap, Scout T2: Tap basic, Amulet. Bounceland, Amulet untap it, tap for 2, return trigger on bounceland. Scout in the bounceland, repeat for another 2. Cast Azusa leaving 1 floating. 2nd land drop bounceland, repeat for another 2 (total of 3), 3rd land drop bounceland, repeat for another 2 (total of 5), bounceland back to hand.

So even though that turn made 9 mana, it was all with just the two lands from the opening hand, and the bounceland is back in hand to do another cycle for 8 next turn. The question then becomes on the last return trigger for that turn, do you return the basic or the bounce? If you have another bounce in your hand suddenly you are making 10 mana each turn after that.

I will say that normally Amulet doesn't run any fetchlands, but with W6 they help a great deal, so I've been going back and forth a lot on how many of those it's possible to run. Not many as you can see.

You're right that Amulet also requires two cards to make T2 Karn, but the thing that is a little easier with Amulet ramp is that those two cards can be in two combinations; Scout and an Amulet, or two Amulets since the triggers stack.

You're right about the Pillage specifically being easier in Ponza, as the double red is harder to hit without a Gruul Turf / Stomping Ground specifically. After a recent tweak I am running 2 fewer Pillage, and I miss it enough that I am going to rework it to get it back in.

All that being said, what really makes this version of the deck work (even when it probably shouldn't) is Ancient Stirrings. Grabbing Amulet, any of my prison/combo pieces, as well as grabbing lands I missed is insane all out of one card. If it gets a ban at any point there would be no question that I switch back to Ponza. Once I get more settled on the core of the deck I'm also going to be switching the ramp back to Ponza again to make sure I made the right decision. At the time I used it I was also going more creature based (BBE/Slime/E Wit/etc...), so that probably had a lot to do with the clunky feeling of the payoffs.

Who knows, maybe Ponza ramp with Stirrings is the answer? I am still in the brewing phase for this deck, so it has changed drastically in the last few weeks, but it keeps getting better so I'm gonna see where that ends up.

I appreciate your comments, they do still make me think of more perspectives besides just my own, and if I can't properly explain how a current setup works it probably means that it doesn't work as well as I was thinking, which means back to brainstorming!

July 7, 2019 11:40 a.m.

Liquidbeaver says... #24

clayperce: I'm glad you enjoy it! I just wish it had more early game land destruction in it, compared to the earlier versions. This version tries to form a lock and then start removing their resources, and the other versions tried to prevent them from getting to their bigger spells in the first place, which is a lot harder to do.

I will say this current version is harder to play, as the Amulet land sequencing can get kind of exhausting, but it makes larger bursts of mana which makes things like a T3 Karn into a Lattice on the same turn possible.

I've actually been using the Ponza discord quite a bit the last few weeks to get input, and it has helped a lot!

Definitely keep an eye on the deck, I change it to match exactly what I am playtesting at the time, so there is a lot of back and forth, and I'm going to keep changing it until I feel Karn, Liquimetal, W6, and the Land Destruction are all working how I want them.

If you do test it out, make sure to tell me your thoughts! I really appreciate all feedback.

July 7, 2019 12:05 p.m. Edited.

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