Gahiji: Forever War

Commander / EDH* awalloftext

SCORE: 153 | 83 COMMENTS | 25890 VIEWS | IN 81 FOLDERS


Set Exploration: Battlebond —June 7, 2018

New Recruits

OK, now this is an interesting set - not just for this deck, but just in general! What political applications do we have here?

  • Friend or Foe! (Pir's Whim, Khorvath's Fury, and Regna's Sanction): These are fun, political, and honestly... moderately powerful. Pir's Whim should be slotted into this deck if possible, doubling for a nonbasic land tutor when we don't draw our Knight of the Reliquary. Khorvath's Fury is more situational - might be OK, but I'd run Reforge the Soul over this. Regna's Sanction is actually the least interesting of these to me, but still seems like a really solid wincon; however, I like Disrupt Decorum in this slot much better.

  • Bountiful Promenade and Spire Garden: Just run these. Nothing else to say other than... here's hoping for the enemy-colored cycle in a future set!

  • Bramble Sovereign: Kinda a generic "goodstuff" card, worth running if you have room. It has limited political applications in that it can duplicate cards for your opponent, although not for tokens - just their own creatures.

  • Stolen Strategy: Feels more on-theme in Grenzo, Havoc Raiser or Etali, Primal Storm... but honestly not a bad choice. Slots in place of something like Mystic Barrier or another big, splashy enchantment.


Other Cards to Consider

As always, these probably won't make the cut, but they might have some potential...

  • Play of the Game: Political board wipe! Run it if you want something like that.

  • Generous Patron: This card is political, but without additional ways to add counters to your opponent's creatures, it feels pretty lackluster.

  • Grothama, All-Devouring: This is a fun card, but it actually has ANTI-synergy with Gahiji, often being too easy for your opponents to kill post-Gahiji buff, and denying you of cards. In the end, without tricks, you have to play this and then immediately kill it yourself - not a bad plan, but a little too narrow for my taste.

  • Archon of Valor's Reach: Idea for a deck: Gahiji hatebears. Too cute? Yeah, probably.

  • Notable Reprints: Land Tax, Doubling Season, War's Toll, Beast Within, Swords to Plowshares.

Coward_Token says... #1

The dryad was certainly a welcome addition; as you might have inferred from my previous comments I've wanted to get rid of the Ant for a while. Here's some things I've been thinking of, hopefully they'll be new and noteworthy:

(Huatli, Radiant Champion) is kinda interesting since it's easy for the deck to get enough for the token-friendly draw power emblem in two turns, but good old Garruk, Primal Hunter can probably achieve similar results more reliably even if he's slightly more expensive.

Very questionable but ((The Immortal Sun)) provides a draw power alternative to Mirari's Wake. Obvious ramp-related worries here since I feel the deck doesn't cast enough spells per rotation to make the mana discount compare to the land enhancement. ((Regal Behemoth)) is an interesting middle ground with the bonus of also having a nice body, but misses out on the swarm-friendly anthem and more importantly paints a target on you, which leads to it having a parasitic relationship with all "Deterrence" cards, as well as some "Conflict Escalation" ones (especially anti-synergetic with Mystic Barrier since getting monarchy back could get really awkward). Finally, with 6 CMC and taking a rotation to actually start providing their draw power (maybe even more in the case of the Behemoth), both of them will probably come out too late too often. (Other Naya monarch cards are overall pretty lackluster IMO.)

A few non-Rivals cards:

I feel Warmonger Hellkite is too mana-demanding for what it gives, being in the second highest CMC category of the deck while also wanting you to spend 2 mana on its activated ability and having a drawback. I wonder if long-term Maybeboard resident Grenzo, Havoc Raiser can't do things more efficiently by providing a Basandra-like sniping ability with a defensive bonus outside of 1v1, but perhaps more intriguingly also providing an alternative source of pseudo-draw (although I realize it's pretty meta-dependent and requires you to gamble on holding back mana in case you get lucky) that also adds a slight control quality to the deck. (He also has some cute synergy with Duelist's Heritage.) Including Grenzo would probably also require switching in some more evasion, in which case I'd like to note my preference of Khenra Charioteer over the Primer-recommended Archetype of Aggression since I don't want to stop my opponents from trampling over each other (Monarchy-enabling Regal Behemoth will obviously want to stick with the Archetype though).

Really questionable but (Ulvenwald Mysteries) could complement Tireless Tracker, obvious problem is that the deck has few creatures that wants to die, and with the exception of Sad Robot they only want to die under the right circumstances. I guess it could EDH muppets like Reclamation Sage even more expendable though, esp. since Sun Titan is a thing. Also ((Tamiyo's Journal)) but it's even slower, esp. considering its cost and rather one-sided benefits.

January 18, 2018 7:45 a.m.

awalloftext says... #2

Coward_Token - Always glad to have another interesting spoiler season.

Huatli, Radiant Champion is very interesting. I'd like her more if she gave trample or some kind of evasion on her minus ability, but her emblem triggering on tokens as well as non-tokens is pretty excellent. I'd be curious to hear if anyone has any good results with her; I imagine I won't have a copy for a while.

I wouldn't fault anyone for running The Immortal Sun, particularly in a Planeswalker-heavy meta. I like Wake because it gets fetched by Academy Rector when there are no better targets; if I ever ran Sun over Wake, I'd probably replace Rector with Orzhov Advokist or something fun like that.

Warmonger Hellkite is weird - everyone I've talked to (on the site or in real life) hates it for reasons like you've said. However, I've gotten so much mileage out of it, and it's just so chaotic. Even if I don't get to untap with it, it at least means 1-3 opponents aren't going to be doing much blocking. You don't always want to play him on curve, but he works for me. So yeah, maybe a pet card, but I really love him.

January 19, 2018 3:20 a.m.

Marvell says... #3

Hey, I'm thinking about trying to sell Academy Rector to boost my budget and invest in a control deck. Do you think he is necessary? I read the previous commentary mentioning Orzhov Advokist. If Rector is not THAT "must have" what else would you suggest?

Btw, got REALLY good results from Mirror Entity lately! But Benefactor's Draught keeps beeing a poor cycle card mostly... Couldn't use to its fullest yet, drawing more cards from blockers, but I'll keep trying some more game nights hahahahahah

January 19, 2018 6:29 p.m.

awalloftext says... #4

Marvell - I don't know if you've noticed, but I actually ditched Draught in the last update. It only really got good results about 1/5 casts that I drew it, so that's just not reliable enough. In its place I added Goblin Diplomats, as I recently joined a new playgroup with a heavy blue combo/control meta; people often refuse to attack - so I needed at least one more reliable source for forcing them.

Rector's totally not necessary. It gets me Mystic Barrier, Mirari's Wake, or Curse of Bloodletting depending on what I need at the time, but it's easily cut-able (especially since it's valuable).

Honestly, because Rector's effect is so unique you can really cut him in favor of anything - more forced attacks (Master Warcraft and the like), more ramp (Nature's Lore or a signet or something), more removal (Swords/Path, Song of the Dryads, etc), or even something spicy like Beastmaster Ascension. You're not going to get Rector's effect anywhere else so really anything goes.

If I had to cut Rector myself I'd add Mentor of the Meek back in, probably.

January 20, 2018 12:09 a.m.

Marvell says... #5

I've noticed, but I wanted to tell you it's not working for me either hahahahha

Yes, Rector is insane! Hmmm I may put Tireless Tracker in and Rector out then - since I use Mentor of the Meek in the Tireless slot. Then, after a few more tests, I may swap Draught for Orzhov Advokist and try to convince players who gets the buff attack control/combo players maybe.

I have another question... did you try Master Warcraft already? It seems good combined with Tempt with Vengence and even Draught.

January 20, 2018 4:39 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #6

A less virtual (but still only figurative) wall of text coming trough:

Marvell: You mentioned not getting much mileage out of Alliance of Arms a while back, maybe trade it out for a good old Hunted Dragon? Some more evasion (and haste!) seems nice to me and it's still in the spirit of the deck, if not as much as giving everyone 4+ weenies for the same amount of mana (it's too bad that in this case, Join Forces doesn't give people much incentive to spend their instant-speed lunch money...) Varchild's War-Riders is also an option, even if it's token gifting takes a while to pick up speed. (Alternatively, you can solve things in the fun and janky way by complementing Alliance with any of Invasion Plans, Bedlam, War Cadence, Battle Strain/Heat of Battle, Magistrate's Veto, No Quarter(with e.g. Gahiji), Tempting Licid, Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile or even Assault Suit + e.g. Archetype of Courage or Champion of Lambholt(also mooches off any creatures entering during its stay) so the attacking weenies survive(while still tapped and unable to block) and/or cause damage and/or cause the deaths of their defending counterparts so that those can't block in the future. Already-present Curse of Predation works too, if only on one person.(Obviously, you still need a way to make people to attack each other.))

awalloftext: (Rivals response-response)

Huatli, Radiant Champion: yeah, in order to fit in the deck she'd probably need to be complemented by more evasion and/or one-to-many effects, e.g. Legion Loyalist or Dragon Throne of Tarkir (I would have taken the chance to mention Elemental Mastery yet again (or Pollenbright Wings for that matter), but with that emblem I'm afraid things will get out of hand [SpongeBob laugh]) (On a related note, I keep giving Praetor's Counsel longing glances before sighing at that 8 CMC...)

The Immortal Sun: Enlightened Tutor would be the natural-but-boring complement, even if it wouldn't lessen the steep CMC

Non-Rivals thoughts:

Continuing an apparent crusade against high CMC flying creatures: Is Hornet Queen worth it if you don't put too much value on maintain the get-as-many-creatures-as-possible theme? Yes, it's an important holder of evasion in the deck (and deathtouch + flying is pretty spicy, esp. when Rhys hits the floor) and it greatly benefits from various anthem effects (16 sum power with Gahiji alone is far from bad), but I feel that at 7 CMC it's not quite enough. Possible alternatives I'm contemplating myself would be the ones mentioned in the Evasion Package variant, other CMC-affordable trample-giving creatures, Akroma's Memorial (on one hand, pretty bomb immediately, on the other, as expensive as the Queen, redundant with Iroas and anti-synergetic with Mirri's defensive aspect due to vigilance (ironically) unless you complement with some artificial source of tapping) or maybe even Eldrazi Monument (I'm kinda afraid of not reliably producing enough disposable creatures for it). (Too bad you can't just murder Homura, Human Ascendant with a Skullclamp, eh) (I won't whine about Gisela though, since she manages to honor the spirit of the deck while still being one of its few bombs)

Maybe I'm being simplistic here, but I feel that all other things being equal, (beatdown) players tend to attack the opponent with the most life in order to avoid being outlasted in the long run. To take advantage of this, I'm thinking of replacing Rootbound Crag with Grove of the Burnwillows(bonus: slightly more reliable ramp!) and/or Lifecrafter's Bestiary with Sylvan Library(yes, I know it's already mentioned in the primer); this could work as another way of influencing attacks while still fulfilling the vital roles of ramping & card advantage. (If only Armistice was less bad...) Main concern would be that since the Library is such a high-profile card it could be counterproductive, in the sense that people might be more eager to ping you in order to hamper your progress. Furthermore, bringing your life down too much could cause people to smell blood and see an opportunity to kill you, and in the deck's current state it only has two ways to get life back (well, technically three, but you'd have to be pretty desperate to use Swords to Plowshares for that purpose), and I dunno if there's a non-awkward way to squeeze in more lifegain cards (Archangel of Thune? Angelic Skirmisher? Pride Sovereign(maybe in that hypothetical cat tribal variant)? Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle??). (At least there's the silver lining of Sunforger being able to fetch Benevolent Offering in a pinch, because what doesn't that hammer do?)

Finding myself increasingly intrigued by Regal Behemoth after reading Queen Marchesa: Politics, Aikido, and Control as it pointed out the attractiveness of being the monarch encourages conflict (and being attacked once in a while might not be all bad either, see below), but it would probably need to be complemented by a land untapper like Nature's Will since you'd otherwise would kinda have to hold your mana base back until post-combat whenever you want to get the monarch back in order to take advantage of the Behemoth's Mirari's Wake effect, and the 6 CMC is still prohibitive. (Also: of course monarch drawing happens at the end step, duh)

Finally, here's probably my most questionable musing yet: So for similar reasons to the aforementioned M. Queen deck I inspected this,

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/212130-pillow-fort-edh

,which included the following paragraph:

Why omit Propaganda and Ghostly Prison?

Simply put, these enchantments were awesome when they were "new technology," just like Rhystic Study. Everyone was on Level 0, refusing to attack for a cost when they could attack for free elsewhere. At level 0, these are insanely good.

With numerous blogs, webcasts, articles, and Wizards support, Commander is developing enough of a hivemind that these cards are starting to generate the opposite effect: putting a cost on attacking makes some players feel like they're being tricked, so they make it a point to show you taxation without representation is not a valid defense. The mana cost is a tempo loss, but not enough of one. Opponents are now on Level 1, where the option of paying 2 makes them feel like they're investing in threat management (and they're right!)

These are valid if you run a heavily meta-oriented deck where your opponents have lots of creatures. A combination of all 3 propaganda effects along with enchantments like Reverence and Lightmine Field are an effective barrier. Beware of the "Challenge Accepted" mentality."

Now, the quote can probably be disagreed with for more than one reason, but it kinda got me wondering if some of the cards in the deck aren't a bit counterproductive. The ones I'm thinking of are Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker (I know we've talked about it before), Serene Master and, rather heretically, Ghostly Prison.

First, on a very obvious level, all of these cards more or less work by dissuading people from attacking you by threatening to deny them resource denying your opponent some resource whenever they attack (i.e. a sacrificed permanent/judo'd fatty/handful of taxed mana). Now, maybe I've given the above quote and the previously mentioned thing about high life points inviting attacks too much thought & credit, but I wonder if this particular flavor of pillow fort/rattlesnake cards end up making you more of a target by virtue of heavy-handedly threating to outlast the competition and/or blow up their respective stuff in particular (in the sense that the effects of the cards can't readily be directed at someone else when relevant, more on the alternative later). This might make opponents might feel inclined to take you out anyway ASAP and/or cut the Gordian Knot by just using removal on the offending permanents.

Second, on an even-more-obvious-yet-somewhat-distinctive level, all of these cards more or less work by denying opponents resources when they attack you, which I feel is kinda wasteful because they could potentially use those resources on other people later (and if said resources is a grave concern then burning a removal spell might be safer )

Finally, without proper support they're all more or less purely defensive (I feel Michiko, having only 2 toughness and lacking evasion or even Mirri's decent First Strike damage, is prone to being focused on when attacking since that could be profitable for the defending player in the long term), which is also kinda bad since the deck is beatdown-minded.

(I'm (even more) unsure about Windborn Muse seeing as it provides a decent flying offense to complement its taxation. Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs is too cool for me to consider kicking out, especially since opponents can just chose to give you ogres.)

Where I'm going with this is that I'm wondering if there's cause for replacing one or more of the three above with cards which (1) don't automatically retaliate when you're attacked, (2) gives an offensive benefit when it does happen (which when combined with the first point also arguably gives you an information advantage over your opponent since they don't necessarily know what you'll do with it) and (3) have a bit better attacking capabilities of their own:

Broodhatch Nantuko: More flexible but less powerful Hornet Nest(which I btw don't have a problem with). Synergizes a bit with the mind games of Den Protector if you have the mana to spare. (Brimaz, King of Oreskos has already been mentioned and is less explosive but arguably more reliable)

Requiem Angel: After contemplating the deck's lack of haste sources (and to a lesser extent, evasion), this one intrigued me because it takes advantage of the rampant summoning sickness among a lot of the deck's (token) weenies by letting you block with them to their deaths on an attacking opponents turn and then replace them with a bunch of fliers that will be ready to go on your turn. The steep CMC is the obvious concern.

Darien, King of Kjeldor: Similar thoughts here to Requiem Angel with regards to bypassing the need for haste but also the CMC.

A bit of a compromise which I'm also intrigued by is Archangel of Tithes. The designers probably wanted people to give it vigilance somehow in order to have their tax cake and eat it too, but I'm liking the idea of being able to toggle between defense and offense for the purpose of manipulating attacks. The evasion-by-taxation effect is a bit of a mixed bag though; it could lead to the resource-threating problems I blathered about earlier, but it could also be highly effective by virtue of letting you force control players to chose between holding back their instant-speed mana or be punched in the face, while at the same time plain punching trough the defenses of less mana-rich people. Aside from these worries, the WWW in the cost could also require more mana fixing. ((Relatively) old-school & colorless Thunderstaff is a pea from a similar pod which I haven't counted out yet either, although another commenter already mentioned it back in the end of august.)

(A further compromise would just be to kick one of the three out in favor of Grenzo and relying more on goading to keep you relatively safe.)

So in summary I guess I'm proposing a variation which could be charitably be described as "bold" and less charitably "reckless", where you rely more on cards which provide a "softer" defense (including e.g. Gahiji and the Curses) and/or are more versatile with the hope that it would somewhat unintuitively lead to taking less damage, but CMC concerns definitely keeps me from standing by the whole package (the deck's current curve is pretty elegant)

January 26, 2018 3:17 a.m.

awalloftext says... #7

Marvell - Yep! Master Warcraft is great. Can be a game winner if played correctly. I cut it for Disrupt Decorum (I think?), but I occasionally consider looking for something to swap it back in for.


Coward_Token To sort of cut to the chase of the whole "Pillow Fort vs. Non-Pillow Fort" discussion, I think a softer defense is totally valid.

Ghostly Prison still puts in work for me for most playgroups - but I do have one particular group that I mentioned above... skews very heavily toward a control meta, often getting no profit from attacking at all. In these scenarios, Prison is a dead card without forced attacks, and is not great even then, unless we just Alliance of Arms'd or Sylvan Offering'd the board. Even so, it still seems to make enough of a difference in most other games. I honestly never even thought to cut it.

Exploring this line of thought I would cut all "Deterrance" cards but Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist (provides other use besides pillow fort) and Mystic Barrier (because I still think the card is legitimately too much fun to cut).

In the place of these 6 cards I would probably add a couple more "active" defenses tutorable with Sunforger, like Comeuppance or Deflecting Palm, or even Master Warcraft again. Then with the remaining four slots I would add one or two more token producers, one more piece of removal (also Sunforger tutorable), and something for value like Evolutionary Leap or Growing Rites of Itlimoc  Flip in the last vacancy.

Would probably run great. I most likely won't test this (too lazy at the moment), but I could see it working. It does change the philosophy of the deck a little, and would require some playtesting.

January 26, 2018 4:06 a.m. Edited.

Coward_Token says... #8

Scratch the part about Akroma's Memorial & Eldrazi Monument; with Fumiko the Lowblood and Duelist's Heritage in a deck with a bunch of weenie gifting, cards which grant Trample without Flying are preferable

January 26, 2018 4:08 a.m.

Coward_Token says... #9

Marvell: Oh and just to be exhaustive: Cards like Authority of the Consuls(bonus: token gifting synergy! 1 life per turn with Forbidden Orchard wooo) and Imposing Sovereign could also tip the scales in favor of Alliance of Arms'd opponents closer to the left of you, at the expense of all hostile hasty beatdown creatures. Obviously, those don't solve the basic problem of pacifist opponents either and the deck has exhausted pretty much all of the good forced attack options already (although I guess Rage Nimbus with Maybeboarded War's Toll and Grenzo could also be a thing).

awalloftext: Heh, sorry for my longer-than-usual rambling. An akido-ish approach seems like an OK compromise

January 31, 2018 3:50 a.m.

Coward_Token says... #10

Probably too unreliable and/or potentially chaotic (if hilariously so), but have you looked into Permeating Mass?

(Also Spawnwrithe but it feel too inferior in reliability compared to both Assemble the Legion & Hero of Bladehold.)

February 15, 2018 2:52 a.m.

Carth says... #11

Ever consider a Norn's Annex?

May 13, 2018 12:14 a.m.

BigIsBig453 says... #12

Anything in Battlebond pique your interest? The Assist mechanic and the Friend or Foe cycle seem like wonderful bits of politics for this deck that is all about politicking.

June 6, 2018 7:07 p.m.