Emry, Lurker of the Loch cEDH

Commander / EDH* firrlo

SCORE: 52 | 49 COMMENTS | 33382 VIEWS | IN 25 FOLDERS


king-saproling says... #1

Looks good so far. You run a lot of 0-1 cmc artifacts so I think Salvaging Station would be useful here. Station + Codex Shredder is a neat way to recur counterspells and the like. Station can also combo infinitely with March of the Machines and a bauble. March is nice overall because it turns your trinkets into blockers and Ashnod's Altar into Krark-Clan Ironworks, and would enable many other combos if you decided to run things like Intruder Alarm and Thornbite Staff . Here are some other cards you might like: Locket of Yesterdays , Cloud Key , Tolaria West , Muddle the Mixture , Dizzy Spell , Expedition Map , Vedalken Orrery , Leyline of Anticipation , Umbral Mantle , Liquimetal Coating , Clock of Omens

October 11, 2019 9 a.m.

Magraal says... #2

FYI, Power Artifact doesn't give infinite mana from Mana Vault, nor does Rings of Brighthearth with Grim Monolith. Mana Vault's untap is a trigger, which can't be reduced by Power Artifact; Grim Monolith + Rings will net infinite untaps but will not produce any additional mana- the loop achieves nothing without a Mesmeric Orb in play. The Proteus Staff idea is cute, but imo the more powerful way to build Emry is with creatures that have powerful static abilities that synergise with her- specifically Mirran Spy and Vedalken Archmage The spy in particular goes infinite with any 0-cost artifact that sacs itself as part of the ability, of which you already have the baubles and lotus petal.

October 12, 2019 12:05 p.m.

firrlo says... #3

@king-saporling
Magraal

Thanks for the help! I really appriciate it :-)

You are probably right about Proteus Staff . The idea of shuffling Emry into the deck was too cool for me not to put it in :p The cost of sacrificing high-synergy creatures is, in a competitive sense, not a very Good idea as you pointed out hehe.

Thanks alot for your card suggestions btw!:) I'll rethink the build a bit and consider them.

October 12, 2019 3:25 p.m.

Yoganath says... #4

Is Artificer's Intuition too slow/narrow? Feels like it can hit some key pieces Petal/LED, and dump stuff to the yard if needed...

February 29, 2020 3:47 p.m.

firrlo says... #5

Yoganath I think the card is not worth the cut because the 1-0CMC range is too narrow like you said :) This was the reasoning behind cutting Trinket Mage and I think Trinket Mage is slightly better than Artificer's Intuition. This is due to the fact that the average CMC of our artifacts is very low meaning that we often don't keep a lot of artifacts on hand. However, I still havent settled on a final list so Trinket Mage might be an option but Artificer's Intuition is likely not.

February 29, 2020 4:19 p.m.

How do you find Mirran Spy when you need it? I'm fiddling with a Polymorph Emry build because in my early playtesting Mirran Spy was too hard to find when I needed it.

March 2, 2020 3:44 p.m.

firrlo says... #7

DemonicConsolation The unfortunate answer is: we dont. There is no way to consistently combo off with Mirran Spy + say Mishra's Bauble so for the sake of consistency, we have to rely on multiple winning combos. This does not mean that Mirran Spy is not worth the slot however as it is very powerful when we do manage to find it :)

March 2, 2020 6:15 p.m.

Magraal says... #8

Long-Term Plans and potentially Jalira, Master Polymorphist would help you find the spy. The tutor is likely worth running anyway, Jalira is an option- due to Emry having affinity she could be quite efficient, but you would need to have Thousand-Year Elixir out if you wanted to try to win off the activation. Oh and Drift of Phantasms is also a very good tutor in blue.

March 2, 2020 9:21 p.m. Edited.

Radsurlak says... #9

No Jace, Wielder of Mysteries or Lab Man? Maybe drawing deck isn't as efficient but you can run into a lot of draw based wincons with this deck. (I own an emry list and looking to upgrade it)

March 5, 2020 12:36 p.m.

firrlo says... #10

Radsurlak One problem with Jace, Wielder of Mysteries and Laboratory Maniac is that they cant be played from our graveyard with Emry. This is problematic because we have very limited ways of drawing our entire deck as opposted to scraping it into our graveyard. Another problem is that they provide little to no utility outside of the actual combo. Drawing them feels very bad. Now, the same argument applies to Walking Ballista. However, Walking Ballista avoids our first problem and is therefore the better choice. :) And because we want to run as few dead cards as possible, we dont run both Walking Ballista and Laboratory Maniac. Hope this answers your question!

March 5, 2020 12:59 p.m. Edited.

firrlo says... #11

Magraal You are right about Drift of Phantasms. Thanks! :) ♥️

March 5, 2020 1:03 p.m. Edited.

Radsurlak says... #12

What should I replace for the $1000+ cards? I can't afford Timetwister, Bazaar, Tabernacle, or Workshop

March 10, 2020 11:36 p.m.

firrlo says... #13

Radsurlak If proxies isn't an option, I would replace these with just overall solid includes. Negate, Preordain, Gilded Drake, Pulse of the Grid are all cards that fell just below the line for making the cut. Any of these should be fine :)

March 12, 2020 5:04 a.m.

Magraal says... #14

Cantrips are always decent cards to run in place of more expensive options as they help you find the more central combo pieces, but you can also run cards that help you stop other people from winning. Karn, the Great Creator / Torpor Orb / Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing Needle are all solid inclusions and will stymie your opponents plans very effectively.

March 12, 2020 11:43 a.m.

jaymc1130 says... #15

You might consider taking a look here for some ideas: Emry's Forgeworks.

I've been fooling with an Emry build for cEDH the last week and a half and it's been quite a lot of fun. Figured I'd take a look at some other lists and see if the combined brainpower could yield some results in terms of incremental improvements. I seem to be able to get very consistent combo potential, or enough interaction to stand some chance in games where I'm playing against the best decks in the format, but not both yet. Mono colored decks generally never are able to reach that point, but with some inspirational assistance it's possible to get close.

Just as some side notes, it's entirely possible to combo out with Mishra's Bauble and other similar "draw a card next upkeep" cantrip artifacts. It just requires Shimmer Myr so you can play artifacts at instant speed, at which point there are a number of game winning combos that could potentially be employed. Chakram Retriever, Pemmin's Aura, and Freed from the Real all offer the same general combo lines as Mirran Spy and I've gone this route for the time being to cut down on tutor need and increase consistency. The enchantments require more combo elements and they are rather specific so I'm not totally satisfied, but they do work well. I gave things like Riddlesmith/Vedalken Archmage a try but was not at all happy about the performance or the consistency of finding the piece and moved to basically any artifact that includes a "sac: draw card" clause and some that draw on ETB. At first I was also running Urza and some supporting staff for him but found I didn't tend to need him at all and I'm curious if that's also your opinion as your list doesn't include him either. Krark-Clan Ironworks is a seriously sweet combo enabler for Emry that smooths out the lines around things like Mishra's Bauble allowing them to both draw infinite and generate infinite mana which can later be filtered to . Thousand-Year Elixir, Umbral Mantle and Magewright's Stone haven't gotten a look yet, but with cost reducers and KCI (+ non Aura combo element aside from the Mantle) they have potential to generate infinite colorless mana that can then later be filtered and are artifact pieces that can be recurred, potentially making for some nice synergy.

Emry seems quite interesting in this format and I'm looking forward to seeing how competitive the community can get the concept to be.

March 13, 2020 3:29 p.m.

bmc10 says... #16

I saw this deck list and immediately was like yes i love emry one of my favorite cards lets go. I've been fooling around a bit with it and was wondering about a few cards such as delve cards like treasure cruise, temporal trespass and dig through time. I was also wondering about the altars and there purpose and was curious if altar of dementia would better fit? Copy artifact was another card option i was wondering if it would do well. Lately i tried putting in voltaic key and manifold key and found that it could lead to some impactful and explosive turns within the first few turns. With that in mind I was wondering if artificer's tuition might be reconsidered. Also a budget option is echo of ions plus it might better fit the self milling theme. I have more but i dont want to bombard just figured i'd gather your thoughts and also say thanks i love this deck already!

March 13, 2020 11:17 p.m.

firrlo says... #17

jaymc1130 Yes, thats part of the reason why Shimmer Myr is included in the list. I have written about this in the description.

Freed from the Real is much worse than Mirran Spy. Its combo potential is more narrow, going infinite with just Lion's Eye Diamond or milling our library with Mesmeric Orb and Lotus Petal. The utility it brings to the table is an upside, allowing us to draw multiple cards a turn with one of the baubles. However, not enough of an upside to make the cut.

Vedalken Archmage or Riddlesmith are not to be tutored for or to be seen as a combo piece. It fills a similar role as Rhystic Study.

Krark-Clan Ironworks is too dead of a card to make the cut.

Magewright's Stone has potential but is a lot worse than Thousand-Year Elixir. Hard to find a slot for it.

March 14, 2020 5:27 a.m.

firrlo says... #18

bmc10 I love Emry too! So much fun to play and experiment with. :) ♥️

The delve cards such as Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are indeed very good options. I have considered both in the 99 and you could definetly argue they are better than, say, Rhystic Study which fills a similar role. If the grindyness of your meta calls for it, I would look to slot these in. They are also excellent options when building Emry within a budget.

Temporal Trespass seems to be a bit too vulnerable and specific for not enough payoff when resolving. It simply doesnt do enough when resolving to be worth the slot in my opinion.

The purpose of the altars in this build is to work alongside Thousand-Year Elixir to dig very deep into our deck. Im currently working on a primer for the altar loops but studying has gotten in the way hehe. To explain very breifly: 1) Sac Emry to altar, returning her to the command zone. 2) Play Emry, milling 4 cards. 3) Cast artifacts from the grave with Emry, reducing her casting cost further. 4) Repeat. Note that both the untap ability from Thousand-Year Elixir and Emry's activation may be copied with Rings of Brighthearth to enable us to continue digging. This loop is very likely to have runway for about 3 iterations without the support of other pieces. However, enabling us to dig through 12 cards on avrage and allowing us to dump our library into our graveyard when we have infinite mana is perhaps enough to make the cut. I would consider the altars to be the combo pieces with the least amount of utility so im considering whether these should be in the list at all. I hope this was consise enough to explain my reasoning why they are in there :)

Echo of Eons is also a great inclusion. Its a card which I have been considering for a while now and you could probably make a fair argument about it being a better Timetwister. Going to test it some more and see how I feel :)

March 14, 2020 9:18 a.m.

jaymc1130 says... #19

firrlo

I played a half dozen more games with Emry last night testing some iterations. Ultimately I just didn't like the performance of Freed from the Real either. Both of the aura's are a lot more narrow than the Spy, but this is a mono colored deck and we won't have access to Jeskai Ascendancy that is the absolute best combo piece, gotta work with what's available. Pemmin's is staying in though, the protection and utility it offers made for better performance and one piece that works with Lion's Eye Diamond or KCI/Eye of Ramos/Commander's Sphere/Implements of Sacrifice and cost reducers to go infinite is worthwhile as it dramatically increases the consistency of going off the turn or two after casting Emry due to dramatically increased chances of Emry mill hitting relevant pieces to recur.

Mesmeric Orb was actually something I gave a try in my initial incarnations and it's performance was atrocious. Too vulnerable a line to any form of graveyard hate, too clunky, to narrow. The deck still needs some form of ability to make use of repeated Emry activations and draw out though, and in fact the drawing out part is significantly more important than the creation of infinite mana part. Infinite draw always leads to infinite mana, while infinite mana with no command zone outlet is largely useless the majority of the time.

Riddlesmith and Vedalken Archmage did not cut it in the handful of games I played with them in, too slow, inconsistent, clunky, easy to remove. Nor does Rhystic Study in my group, just not competitive enough in terms of the value it tends to generate (drawing typically 2 cards and mostly taxing players' excess mana that isn't needed, in which case cards like Thirst for Knowledge offer better value despite not being competitive enough itself). So somehow Emry needs a way to consistently draw, both for value and to combo out, and moving to Chromatic Sphere/Conjurer's Bauble//Mind Stone type cards with 5 or 6 artifact cost reducers seemed logical. Turns out this has been dramatically more consistent while still fast, though a bit wasteful in terms of card slot efficiency.

Krark-Clan Ironworks should likely be a staple for an Emry deck. It's ability to turn any artifact into an infinite mana generator seriously widens the decks scope and allows more focus to be given to the draw aspect. The additional consistency it's inclusion allows cannot really be understated. I actually have yet to try Phyrexian Altar or Ashnod's Altar though I considered them initially. Ultimately those 2 sacrifice outlets are just too narrow in scope and the combo lines to go infinite are way too convoluted and clunky. It seems to make more sense to use a sacrifice outlet that's going to enable 40% of the deck to become combo pieces. Won't be the combo the deck really wants to look for, but KCI will often be the one it finds with very little effort.

I gave both Magewright's Stone and TYE a look last night in the slot previously held by Freed from the Real and found them interesting. With an active Emry, KCI, and cost reduction pieces to play for 0 mana they generate infinite mana quite nicely. I don't know if the "haste" clause is more valuable than needing one less cost reduction piece to enable the line, but I do like the utility of a hasty Emry in the event my first Emry cast got killed off. It might be worthwhile to run both, but I kind of doubt it. I'm sticking with TYE at the moment.

Scrap Trawler is on my radar as my next idea to test out. Seems like an interesting piece to have around with KCI (I'd initially thought of it as a piece for the Altar pair). Would open up some interesting lines, for example: Tap Mana Vault for , sac it for , sac a tapped Magewright's Stone for , bring Mana Vault back to hand, tap Commander's Sphere for , sac Commander's Sphere to draw a card, bring Magewright's Stone back to hand. With the loop can be repeated with Emry recurring Commander's Sphere infinitely to draw infinite cards and generate infinite blue mana. With a single cost reduction piece in play a dozen other lines open up. With 2 in play basically every card in the deck would generate infinite mana and card draw with only a single untap of Emry required. These lines seemed too convoluted to me at first, but after playing around with the deck some and seeing how often it comes by combos incidentally off a single Emry activation given the dearth of fodder I'm starting to think Scrap Trawler might have a place in the deck (in which case I'd definitely run Magewright's Stone in addition to TYE).

Man, Emry is hella fun to theory craft. Just talking about the possibilities gets my juices going.

As a point of inquiry, how are you liking High Tide and is a line with Candelabra of Tawnos+Minamo, School at Water's Edge worth inclusion in your mind? Is Minamo, School at Water's Edge worth inclusion as just a value piece and if so, what kind of artifact density do you feel is needed to justify it as a value developmental piece?

March 14, 2020 9:58 a.m.

firrlo says... #20

jaymc1130 Thats intresting. Im in love with Mesmeric Orb. I think its fantastic as an early play to start digging through the deck at each upkeep. It wins the game with Basalt Monolith, and Emry. It also wins the game together with Mirran Spy + Lotus Petal or Lion's Eye Diamond. Scepter combo also wins the game with the orb.

I ended up cutting Candelabra of Tawnos as I felt that it diddnt provide enough utility when I drew it. I believe the posibility of a strong hightide turn is not worth the downside of drawing a card that untaps Mishra's Workshop or Bazaar of Baghdad and other utility lands as you mentioned.

Minamo, School at Water's Edge has no downside other than not having synnergy with hightide and being hit by Blood Moon once every x games. It's ability may also be copied with Rings of Brighthearth. Definetly worth the slot!

March 14, 2020 10:57 a.m.

jaymc1130 says... #21

firrlo

For me, it wasn't that Mesmeric Orb couldn't perform it's job function. Rather it was that the Orb lent more to a slow, grindier approach that was far more vulnerable to counterplay that's common in the format in competitive settings. The first time I got Faerie Macabred for my combo piece I didn't mind it. The second time I got hit with an Ashiok, Dream Render activation for a combo piece I was annoyed. But when I got hit with a Rest in Peace for a third combo piece I lost all hope as that iteration of the deck just didn't have the means to consistently gas up to find ways to combat these types of issues effectively. That was an extreme example, but it really highlighted a point of concern for me. I realized that part of the problem was the approach, over reliance on tutors to find specific combo elements, lack of consistency getting Emry out on turn 1 due to card choices for higher cmc artifact combo elements, and a slow game plan that naturally had difficulty competing against the best decks in the format. I worked through a couple of other approaches to see which performed most consistently at a high level given the type of competing strategies and decks being faced and really felt enthused when the "just run a ton of low cmc artifacts and turn them all into combo pieces" performed well for a half dozen or so games in a row. The approach came with new issues, so it's not like it solves all problems even if the deck's overall performance was more consistent.

I was curious about High Tide. Didn't strike me as the type of line the deck really wanted to pursue. Just seems like it doesn't really mesh with the overall game plan.

Minamo is something I'm going to have to give a try. That one seems nifty enough to warrant some testing as sometimes I've been in situations where if I could just get one more efficient Emry activation I could go off that turn rather than wait another. The potential to generate value activations before that point seems nice as well. Probably give it a shot in my next play test session.

I'm definitely not a fan of the Dramatic/Scepter or other infinite mana combos for an Emry deck, however. They just did not perform well in the early iterations. No command zone outlet makes the combos too inefficient to employ I think, it's just too much to ask to also find a specific outlet in addition to these combo pieces before anything relevant can be done to engage a combo win line. When I made the switch to prioritize infinite draw over infinite mana I noticed a considerable improvement in performance from game to game and kind of stuck with that approach since.

Still so many ideas to test out though before I settle on a final version and it's nice to be able to find interesting options floating around.

March 14, 2020 11:35 a.m.

jaymc1130 says... #22

Ok, Scrap Trawler is sweet. Goldfished it a couple times and played one game with it.

The ability to Intuition for Scrap Trawler, Magewright's Stone, and Krark-Clan Ironworks is amazing. It won't matter which one the opponent gives you, you're going to get all 3 into play that turn or the next, at which point you're basically online. Just need a 0 and 1 cmc artifact (which you should be getting incidentally as part of board development with the right build) that draws a card and start chaining. Considering adding Merchant Scroll into the list because of just how strong the Intuition line can be. KCI is just busted, definitely try some games with this card mate, it really makes an Emry deck hum.

March 14, 2020 12:42 p.m.

firrlo says... #23

jaymc1130 Scepter + reversal is a must include.

March 14, 2020 2:26 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #24

So I've played about a dozen games now with Minamo, School at Water's Edge and you were dead right. This card provides some wonderful value generation while also helping to limit the effectiveness of opposing Carpet of Flowers. I've really enjoyed it's performance.

Dramatic Scepter combo really doesn't feel like it does anything for the deck though. Same issue the other infinite mana combos had, the mana alone doesn't do anything without a reliable outlet and the performance of the deck with those pieces included was a bit worse than without them. There's probably a way to optimize Emry to make good use of them, but it seems unlikely to improve overall performance. I think that type of combo makes a lot more sense when there is an outlet in the command zone and access to more quality rocks/dorks than mono blue tends to have access to.

I'm considering giving Riddlesmith another try now that my list has gotten tuned to the low cmc artifact approach as this feels like it'd have better synergy with Riddlesmith than my initial approaches. Both Guild Globe and Swiftfoot Boots feel like card slots that Riddlesmith could take. I'm leaning toward Guild Globe coming out since it's to activate and doesn't produce when filtering while fulfilling a similar primary role of digging. The boots have sometimes been nice in the face of Gilded Drake effects or other targeted removal but also has felt like a card lacking impact most games, so either seems like a slot that could be tinkered with. Curious as to your thoughts on which might be the better slot for Riddlesmith to occupy for the time being.

March 18, 2020 1:04 p.m.

bmc10 says... #25

firrlo it's all good best of luck with school hope your figuring out stuff with everything going on with corvid. i'm just happy to talk about emry with people.

jaymc1130 I think your right but, if you took out the sac outlet and mesmeric orb you probably lose the slot for the scepter but, dramatic reversal might still have a place in the deck. Do you have any thoughts on the keys for the deck (voltaic/manafold) i'm interested in scrap-trawler as well but im not too familiar with it (or how to abuse it)

March 19, 2020 2:25 p.m.

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