Sided out Deserted Temple for Cavern of Souls (Wizards). Thoughts?

I saw the discussion with Black Diamond on MTGS, I think Cavern would be great.

Gifts Ungiven over Intuition ? One more mana: could have the exact same function, or possibly could net you one more card.

ahem Death Diamond

Gifts Ungiven is banned in edh though..

@fireteam: If, as deathbygiraffe mentioned, Gifts Ungiven wasn't banned in EDH, it would certainly be in this deck. I think I would replace Fact or Fiction for it, though. You almost never find all four cards, though. You find two and then you get to keep both no matter what. That's actually the reason it's banned - it's an instant tutor x2 in blue for 4.

lol Should have known. I thought: "Hey, it's legal in modern. It's probably legal everywhere.."

"You find two and then you get to keep both no matter what."

By keep, you mean put in the GY?

in my opinion, this deck can't really use the cavern. you have so many different types of creatures, that it just isn't worth it and if they do counter something like Snapcaster Mage , it is just their loss, because then you can combo off without having to worry about their counterspells.

@fireteam: I may have been thinking of a different card. Strange. I can still find Eternal Witness , card:Volrath's Stronghold, and any two other cards and my opponent loses to that choice.

@m12fox: Four of the creatures and my general are all wizards, so I don't think Cavern of Souls is a bad choice. It lets me evade counterspells and land my general or Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir (my opponents lose to Teferi resolving at EoT). I don't really think it's any worse than Deserted Temple in this deck. What would you recommend?

fudgecrackers, your land base is so good. i would suggest Maze of Ith but you don't want it for your deck, so i would suggest you consider Gemstone Caverns or Gemstone Mine but otherwise i don't know.

I run a deck (only casual) very similar in concept that uses Memnarch as commander for the main control element. I realize this is far weaker because if he is countered etc the deck, too, becomes much weaker. But with all the mana you generate, you could make good use of him.

The problem with Memnarch is its slowness. At 7 mana to cast, it puts me in a difficult position; if I'm investing that much mana in a single spell, I need that spell to win me the game. I can't afford to tap out or even dedicate most of my resources to a card that can't instantly win or guarantee me the win. The activation costs of his abilities are also expensive. Often, high-level games rarely see permanents that are worth stealing for that much mana until the final turn or two. At that point, if I haven't dedicated all of my spare resources to assembling my own victory, I will lose the game. In a casual environment, I would consider it. As a strategy at the level of competitive play this deck finds itself in, it leaves much to be desired.

Cyclonic Rift ? Or does not being able to remove lands make it not worth it?

Sorry didn't see it in your deck!

have you though of Guard Gomazoa /Fog Bank , it gives a good defense it doesn't die easily, and if not them, Gomazoa ?

Cyclonic Rift is a good card in general, and I find that it's very strong even though it doesn't hit lands. Being able to sweep mana rocks and everything else at EOT is extremely powerful when you're down to the wire and need an extra edge. Its function as a 2-drop targeted bounce spell also makes it flexible.

@m12fox: Combat isn't really a huge part of the game for me. I rarely find myself getting attacked for any appreciable amount, and there are removal spells to deal with the occasional voltron deck (and Damnation hits hexproof generals in case I'm going up against Sigarda or something similar). If those creatures had functions outside of combat, then they would be more viable in this deck.

Ive play tested this deck a couple of times, and it doesn't seem to hold up well in a 1v1 environment. It loses to very aggro strategy and it loses to very hardcore control decks. As your competive setting is pods it is very strong, however Rakdos Aggro upsets it too much and kills it far to quickly, Clique Control beats it in the counterspell war, Geist Of Saint Traft is far to quick, and infect can crush it before it gets off the ground, but only in 1v1. For your Pod setting very strong but i feel that a dedicated combo deck would be able to out race it. Not sure on how to improve it, but very well done.

Have you considered Impulse ?

Cavern of Souls is great!

Wizards, Humans or Illusions, it does its work.

How about Trinket Mage and Realms Uncharted ?

Don't know what to replace though.

@gromly42: I could see the deck being outraced in 1v1 by some voltron builds. It's optimized for 4-man tournament pods and my normal 1v1 matchup is the mirror. Did you notice any problems in the playtesting process?

@BX223Hunter: Impulse doesn't really seem very good. card:Sensei's Divining Top and the innumerable fetches/tutors do essentially the same thing.

@eros123eros: Trinket Mage isn't really as good as the other ramp cards in the deck. If I didn't have access to green, it would be more of a consideration. Realms Uncharted is also a little underwhelming. It doesn't put any of the lands on the battlefield and it's only really useful when I have Crucible of Worlds and either Oracle of Mul Daya or Azusa, Lost but Seeking .

have you looked at Defense of the Heart ? That would be an auto win for you with your infinite mana combos

Defense of the Heart used to be in the deck, but it wasn't very reliable. There's no guarantee an opponent will control three or more creatures before the final turn, and the enchantment is hard to protect. It has to be cast at sorcery speed unless I have Leyline of Anticipation or card:Alchemist's Refuge.

one of the major issues that i pinipointed was the lack of Ramp, your early turns are fairly lack luster, and with green as a color i feel that you should be playing more early ramp cards. the ones you have are Very strong but can be disrupted by an opponent who knows your list/played against it before, it also has a distinct lack of board wipes, you have strong pinpoint removal but say a opponent lands Edric or Momir Vig they can easily land a multiple threats on that single turn that you simply cannot deal with(unless you have infinite mana, but you should have won by then). Damnation and Pernicious Deed are just 2 cards, maybe a Lifes Finale or perhaps a Black Suns Zenith. Another card that might be useful due to your creature based combos is Chord Of Calling, or Perhaps a Worldly Tutor. Also if a deck can assemble a better consistent draw engine( Clique Decks as an Example) then they will win in the control game and so Speed is a major Issue for this Deck. Perhaps look at some of the French Lists for Edric and for Zur both of which are very fast and very strong(so strong edric was banned recently). Edric is currently my worst Matchup, both for my infect deck and my Combo/control Memnarch Deck,

I don't typically run into scenarios where board wipes are really necessary. A lot of the threats end up getting countered or hit by one of the few spot removal spells.

I would like the deck to be a bit faster, but I'm not sure what other ramp to include or what to drop to make room for any ramp that I find.

Chord of Calling and Worldly Tutor are kind of limited. I would rather use Tooth and Nail or general purpose tutors to find my combo pieces because they are more efficient and flexible.

I'm in the same position over draw power as I am over ramp. I just don't know what else I could include and at what cost.