Death Touch Green Boi

Modern twechsler

SCORE: 2 | 24 COMMENTS | 626 VIEWS


TheVectornaut says... #1

I'll just go through the mainboard cards I would personally cut first. Ancient Ooze : very big but requires trample or the like to actually do anything at 7 mana. Copper Myr : almost objectively worse here than most green mana dorks. Ezuri's Archers : not impactful enough in the main without a devotion or elf theme. Ghoultree : your creatures are too big to be dying that often and you want them alive anyway. Lumberknot : similar story to Ghoultree. Spawnwrithe : needs to be built around. Wall of Tanglecord : wastes the benefits of any Overrun effects. Predator's Rapport : more of a sideboard card unless burn is really popular. Reclaim : very slow and lacking enough good targets. Serpent's Gift : redundant and inefficient if you just run enough deathtouch creatures. Tower Defense : are there really enough flyers going around to have this in the main? Windstorm : see above. Spider Spawning : if this is what you're running Transguild Promenade for, it's not worth it without more GY synergy. Accorder's Shield : vigilance isn't impactful enough with no exert, tap abilities, or much else to abuse it. Brawler's Plate : very costly for the buff. Golden Urn : much worse than even the Rapport. Staff of the Wild Magus : staffs aren't even strong enough to do well in dedicated lifegain decks, unfortunately.

I'd say all of your maybeboard picks are better than the aforementioned cards. I'll list some other alternatives that come to my mind though. Primordial Hydra and Kalonian Hydra are some budget-unfriendly but highly dangerous beaters that you can get out relatively early. Joraga Treespeaker (or maybe Elvish Archdruid ) would make your archers much better by letting them double as mana dorks. Otherwise, I like Arbor Elf with Utopia Sprawl type auras on your forests to help ramp. If you prefer the vigilance idea, Champion of Rhonas is a budget Elvish Piper that likes not tapping in combat. If you like walls, Overgrown Battlement and Axebane Guardian can get ridiculous mana going. They also benefit from Assault Formation which synergizes with Tower Defense. In terms of small creatures with reach, Traproot Kami is my clear pick for mono-green, especially in multiplayer. If you need to add trample, Rancor is excellent value. If you need recursion, Eternal Witness should be near the top of the list. If you're struggling with flyers, maybe try Gravity Well . If you need more life, Engulfing Slagwurm likes forced blocks while Verdant Sun's Avatar likes playing beefy guys.

Given what you have already, I think shifting to include more deathtouch creatures and Lure s would be the most optimal plan. Viridian Longbow and Thornbite Staff are some other equipment that benefit from that strategy. For the creatures, Ohran Frostfang is a casual-only option that's completely busted in commander, and I'm always a sucker for Wasteland Viper 's versatility at only 1 mana.

April 10, 2021 9:48 p.m.

twechsler says... #2

Thank you so much for the help Vectornaut! The biggest difficulty for me was getting rid of cards I'm too attached to but your explanations make it a lot easier to cut down on cards that don't fit. thanks again!

April 11, 2021 7:34 p.m.

libraryjoy says... #3

Definitely work on cutting towards 60 cards. I will make suggestions to cut, but I need to know what you like best about the deck, how you want it to play, what other types of decks you often play against. Then I can tailor the cuts toward the strategy you prefer. What cards do you absolutely LOVE? Let me know!

April 13, 2021 11 a.m.

twechsler says... #4

libraryjoy the way I want it to play is getting ahead on mana enough to drop one of the heavy hitters like Liege of the Tangle or End-Raze Forerunners . I mostly play just with friends who primarily rely on creatures. This is why I agree with the above comment suggesting I add more Lure and deathtouch creatures so I can easily wipe their defense. I also really like Engulfing Slagwurm and I feel like that fits well with how I play so I'm most likely going to get one or two of them and toss one or two of the high mana cost creatures I have. So basically the ideal strategy is to get tons of mana play tons of creatures, don't let them get a chance to block. Doesn't always happen that way but that's the goal. Thank you for helping me out!

April 13, 2021 11:15 a.m.

twechsler says... #5

Also I'm considering tossing alot of the reach cards that I have for Gravity Well . I pretty much only have them for my one friend's all-flying deck. Im sure that card will throw him for a loop. Let me know if you need more details about specificity.

April 13, 2021 11:22 a.m.

libraryjoy says... #6

So if that's your strategy, then dump a lot of your low cost creatures and build a ramp package. There's two ways I've found that work with that - Elves, or Defenders. As Vectornaut mentioned, the Axebane Guardian , Overgrown Battlement , and Traproot Kami (also can add in Vine Trellis if you need more) ramp package multiplies quickly. A few elves like Elvish Mystic and Llanowar Elves plus Elvish Archdruid (or Karametra's Acolyte for a cheaper option)go nuts fast. Arbor Elf plus ramp land auras like Elvish Guidance can also do the trick. Another option is Gyre Sage with the larger creatures.

Tell me where you feel like going in terms of ramp package, and I'll start making a proposed list for you.

April 13, 2021 11:46 a.m.

libraryjoy says... #7

Ok, I'm seeing your ramp package a little now with just having lots of land, (Sakura tribe elder et al) so stand by while I streamline....

April 13, 2021 12:09 p.m.

libraryjoy says... #8

So here's the deck I made with cuts: Boi, I say Boi! The Wurms are coming! Hope you find it helpful, but feel free to adjust it more to your taste.

April 13, 2021 1:52 p.m.

twechsler says... #9

Wow! Thank you so much for putting that together. It pretty much looks like a more concise version of what I got going on now. I was wondering what would be the best way to use Rogue's Passage. My first thought would be for liege of the tangle or a huge heroes bane but just wanted to hear your reasoning. Once again thanks for taking the time to help me out.

April 13, 2021 2:17 p.m.

libraryjoy says... #10

Yes, Rogue's Passage gets through a giant Heroes' Bane, a Leige of the Tangle, or a Worldspine Wurm to avoid blockers and hit for all 15. Or just to get those last through points of damage through. It doesn't always work, but on more than one occasion, it's won me the game. It's also something they can't see coming, as it can be used on the turn it's played, and is difficult to remove unless your group uses a lot of land destruction. And there's not a lot of competition for the land slots in a mono-green deck. There's really no reason not to include it, and plenty of reasons to!

April 13, 2021 3:14 p.m.

libraryjoy says... #11

After fiddling with your list all day, I also ended up putting together a deathtouch list that I'd been thinking about - Poisoned Tip, or How to Make Your Friends Hate You. I will never actually build this deck to play with, but it's a fun mental exercise.

April 13, 2021 7:13 p.m.

twechsler says... #12

I just checked it out. Definitely a cool concept to just never let your opponents have creatures with the deathtouch viridian longbow combo.

April 13, 2021 7:31 p.m.

Angel_Zero says... #13

April 16, 2021 1:35 p.m.

TheVectornaut says... #14

It is true that the deathtouch package will be worse in multiplayer games since you have more threats to deal with. I think siding into a bigger ramp package would be a good idea. I would caution though that it's important to add in more mana dorks or ramp spells to keep pace with any new bombs you include or you'll find yourself mana screwed a lot of the time.

I went ahead and added my creature-based commander deck so I could link it for reference. It was built from a casual 60-card skeleton that's quite similar to your deck, so some of the ramp cards I've had success with over the years might do well here too.
deck: Predator's Toolkit

Prowling Serpopard or Destiny Spinner could be useful tech if counters are flying around left and right. Vigor is definitely strong against board stalls, and I like Archetype of Endurance against a lot of common removal. Somberwald Sage and Elvish Piper would probably be my first picks for dropping haymakers early without much other support. Yeva, Nature's Herald and Seedborn Muse are particularly disgusting in multiplayer since you essentially play on every turn. Some final bombs I love are Whiptongue Hydra for flyers, Polukranos, World Eater for other creatures, and Sylvan Primordial for most anything else.

For your existing ideas, I think Worldspine Wurm is good if your games go long enough to cast it while Tempt with Discovery is good if you don't have opponents who greatly benefit from the mana. I'm still iffy on Lumberknot in a deck not based around token sacrifice, and I'd probably just run Dungrove Elder if you need a midrange hexproof creature. Hydra's Growth is very good with additional +1/+1 synergy, Kazandu Tuskcaller needs more token synergy, and Strixhaven Stadium feels optimistic in multiplayer. For the bigger cards, I think Vigor , Soul of New Phyrexia , Toski, Bearer of Secrets , Verdant Sun's Avatar , and Vivien Reid are all playable. Myojin of Life's Web needs some way to refill the hand or its ability will never do anything that impactful. Impervious Greatwurm is the weakest option since it gets completely stuffed by chump blockers. I used Connive / Concoct to reanimate it in standard and still found it to be too slow. If you had a Warstorm Surge or something, maybe it'd be a different story...

April 23, 2021 3:33 p.m.

twechsler says... #15

@vectornaut once again thank you for your detailed response. I got lucky enough to pick up a vigor in a package with woodland wanderer and wakewood elemental. Not sure if I should use the other two or not (let me know what you think) but I definitely think vigor should go in the deck. Also looking at picking up an elvish piper or two hopefully so then I wouldn't feel as bad throwing in more huge creatures. Prowling serpopard is definitely a sick option for counters so thank you for bringing that one to my attention. Otherwise I think soul of new Phyrexia, toski, or omnath locus of mana would be top of my list. Making everything indestructible is obviously amazing, the draw card ability for toski would be helpful as I find myself out of cards pretty quickly sometimes and omnath just has so much potential for playing a bunch of stuff. These three though I would have to get lucky on an eBay auction bc I don't have the money to be buying them outright. Do you think these are the right cards to go for?

April 24, 2021 1:03 p.m.

twechsler says... #16

I also put some more stuff in the acquire board so let me know about your opinions on the ones you haven't already talked about. Again thank you so much bc I can go down a rabbit hole of cards that look insane but your comments have been helping me reel that in a bit haha.

April 24, 2021 1:07 p.m.

TheVectornaut says... #17

twechsler, as far as I know, only the creator of a deck can look at the acquireboard. So for me to evaluate any cards there, you'd have to move them to the maybeboard first. I'll give my thoughts on some of the aforementioned cards for now at least.

Woodland Wanderer needs to be cast with Converge 2 to be decent and 3+ to really be good, so I probably wouldn't add it to a mono-green deck. For Wakewood Elemental, I'm assuming you meant either Wakeroot Elemental or Whisperwood Elemental . I really like the latter in midrange decks and would have no qualms about adding it here. The former, on the other hand, costs too much to activate its ability while leaving your lands open to creature removal. Liege of the Tangle sort of does the same thing but better, although you do need to be very cautious of Wrath of God s with it too lest you immediately lose all of your permanents. Omnath, Locus of Mana is a very insane card in the right circumstances, hence its similarly insane price tag. I've seen players go off with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Gaea's Cradle to produce hundreds of mana in a turn without any major combos and save up for something ridiculous like Helix Pinnacle or Finale of Devastation . In your deck, it looks more like you want to be using all of your mana on each turn to curve out into larger and larger threats. Omnath would still be good, but I don't know that he's worth the price right now. Speaking of expensive cards, Wurmcoil Engine might be something to look for since it's both a strong bomb to ramp into and has deathtouch on 2 of its 3 bodies. Asceticism is another that's good for keeping guys alive.

A card I missed talking about in my last comment is Predator Ooze . It's definitely interesting and I see it working well in a Hardened Scales stompy deck alongside its +1/+1 buddies, Experiment One , Pelt Collector , Avatar of the Resolute , etc. If you're not running ways to take advantage of counters, maybe Steel Leaf Champion would perform better in the 3-drop slot. I'd still be more inclined to put a mana dork or Cultivate or Harrow or something there instead. It just depends how fast you want the deck to be. Stompy doesn't usually run many cards that cost more than 4 CMC, so you'd need some major tweaks to move in that direction.

April 24, 2021 6:12 p.m.

twechsler says... #18

Ah I did not realize that about the acquireboard. The other cards I was looking at were the two Nylea god cards as well as the two Rhonas god cards and bow of Nylea. Earlier I meant wakeroot elemental and I figured it was too much mana to be effective. On your other suggestions, I agree Asceticism looks very good for keeping things alive. Nykthos also seems like a great land to go along with Omnath but gaeas cradle looks like it's hundreds of dollars so I don't think that ones for me. As far as the mana ramp does cultivate do anything different from Nissa's pilgrimage? Also I was thinking about harrow but not include it when playing against my friends counter deck.

April 24, 2021 7:01 p.m.

TheVectornaut says... #19

Aside from the power 9 and the original dual lands, Gaea's Cradle is probably the most high-demand card on the reserve list. Years ago, I almost bought one at $80 for a token deck but backed out because it didn't seem worth it and now it's just absurdly expensive. Even non-reserve list cards are really expensive at the moment. Wizards has done a very poor job of keeping supply in line with demand. I bought my playset of Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx for $11 during Theros, but now it would cost $120.

Bellyaching aside, let's talk about gods. Nylea, God of the Hunt is best used as a mana sink for when you have excess in the late game. The only creatures you currently have that make really good use of her trample ability are Scute Mob and Heroes' Bane , and End-Raze Forerunners might make it redundant if that's a card you want to top out at. If you do include Omnath, Locus of Mana , old Nylea would be a great partner for him. As for Nylea, Keen-Eyed , I'd usually prefer the cheaper Duskwatch Recruiter  Flip unless sending stuff to the yard or keeping it on top is of vital importance. Even though Rhonas the Indomitable looks just like the first Nylea, many small differences compound into making him a much stronger card. He costs 1 less, his activated ability costs 1 less, his combat requirement is easier to meet, and he has that excellent deathtouch/indestructible pairing. The card is honestly pretty bananas and would fit very well in your deck if you can afford it. God-Eternal Rhonas is more niche. He also serves a very similar role to Forerunners as a means of finishing the game. I'd normally choose the 5-cost option over the 7-cost one, but the creatures you can currently develop before dropping Rhonas on 5 have relatively low power. Turning a bunch of 1/2s into 2/2s just isn't that impactful, so I'd add new Rhonas only if he had bigger creatures to buff. Finally, Bow of Nylea is a very nice and surprisingly flexible tool for a deathtouch deck. If you could get ~3 copies, you could drop some of the existing DT creatures like Wasteland Viper and Deadly Recluse , add in more Fynn, the Fangbearer , and shift to a very aggressive line of play. Otherwise, I think a singleton copy would be totally fine.

In my suggestions for ramp options, I was basically just using Cultivate as a stand-in for all the 3 CMC 2 land search spells like it. Nissa's Pilgrimage is objectively better in a forest-only deck, although the odds of you having Spell Mastery in the early game with only 5 instants/sorceries in the deck (3 of which are situational) is essentially zero. I also listed Harrow specifically since I've had the most success with it out of all the Cultivate effects save for Harvest Season in token-heavy decks. Being able to immediately convert the untapped lands into a Rampant Growth or any 2-drop creature makes for incredible tempo, and the instant speed is great for bluffing. Seeing a counterspell after the land sac is brutal though so I do understand the hesitation. If that's your biggest worry, I'd also keep an eye out for Allosaurus Shepherd (high budget), Veil of Summer (mid budget), and Autumn's Veil (low budget) as options for the sideboard.

April 24, 2021 10:11 p.m.

twechsler says... #20

TheVectornaut yea I definitely think that Rhonas the indomitable would be a very nice card to grab. I like the idea of getting more fynn, the fangbearer to make the death touch cards effective in more than one way ie poison counters. So I'm thinking of getting maybe one or two more of him along with a two bow of Nyleas. I think keeping the lures and Viridian longbow would work even better with more dt. Since I am going that route do you think there are cards I have in there that don't fit the theme/shouldn't be there. I have been enjoying playing with the 60 cars deck so I want to try and stay at 60 with these additions. As for omnath, gaeas cradle, helix pinnacle I really like that idea of having dozens of mana to spare but it may be just a bit out of reach for what I got going on right now. Maybe I could venture off and make another deck surrounding that and mana abilities of creatures to create tokens? I haven't looked into that kind of deck much but it seems like you have mentioned token synergy a few times so that might be a fun one to try out.

April 25, 2021 11:08 a.m.

TheVectornaut says... #21

Again, ramp and aggro deathtouch don't have all that much overlap, so I'd start by cutting anything that costs more than 5 (except maybe Engulfing Slagwurm ) along with anything that is meant to fetch more lands. Defensive cards like Traproot Kami and "tall" cards like Heroes' Bane also don't have great synergy with that strategy, but they might still be fine if you're going for some sort of hybrid. The more aggressive you are, the better you're likely to fare in 1v1 but the worse you're likely to fare in multiplayer, at least in theory. Making two decks that are specialized for either mode of gameplay is definitely a decent idea if you can afford to do so. I'd also make sure that your playgroup doesn't mind you playing a casual deck built specifically with multiplayer in mind if that's something you intend on doing. Having the only deck filled with cards like Hydra Omnivore at a table full of obviously single-player decks could be awkward.

Regardless, I will admit that I'm very biased in favor of token decks on account of running them in every color in almost every format for a decade now. Selesnya is definitely the color combination you'd want to start in if you're looking to go as wide as possible. They also tend to be great candidates for multiplayer because they facilitate repeated chump blocking, lifegain, and explosive finishes. My EDH deck Get me an Army, on the Double is a decent collection of token cards that work well in casual. I do need to update it post-Covid, but hopefully it still serves as a demonstration of how Selesnya tokens can function.

April 25, 2021 10:30 p.m.

libraryjoy says... #22

Change your deck-type from Modern to Casual if you're going to run Citanul Hierophants . With Legendary creatures, I often only run 3 copies instead of 4 because multiples are not allowed. But if it's going to be a target (And Fynn likely is) sometimes 4 is worth the slot. Honestly, I think you need a bit more land. With the curve you're running and the low amount of ramp, you probably need at least 2 more lands. My first choices for dropping are Nightshade Peddler and 1x Bow of Nylea .

May 3, 2021 5:47 p.m.

twechsler says... #23

Got it. I figured cutting the ramp without adding lands wouldn't be the best. Thanks for the tips :) I'm glad I'm finally done editing this one.

May 3, 2021 8:50 p.m.

TheVectornaut says... #24

You could also just cut the Hierophants to stay in modern. It's not like it's critical here, and even if it was, I think Cryptolith Rite would be the much stronger option (if also the more expensive one). The benefit to having even a casual deck be modern legal is that you can instantly hop into playing against other modern players without modifications. You never know when you're going to have the chance to play with someone new, so having that option open by only cutting a single card is nice.

May 4, 2021 12:34 a.m.

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