tarkington Paramount-TC thank you both.

Hi， I am trying to build a CeDH deck like yours, but I have some budget problems: Due to budget limits, I cannot play LED and Timetwister (these two cards are expensive af so really cannot afford. ) Because of personal issue, I will not use proxies as well. I found almost all of your combo lines involve LED or Timetwister. So how much weaker would this deck be without those cards? Let's assume your originally list has power level 90/100 (no offense, but 100/100 would be Fish Hulk), how would you rate your deck without LED and TimeTwister?

If I go further and cut the Moxes, how would it affect the power level? Although I will most likely get the Moxes (because of versatile), I still want to know more information before making any purchases.

Loving the updates! I need to pick up a LED so I can drop the IsoRev line.

Is Torpor Orb a consideration at all? I feel like it's got a limited application against Oracle (the boogeyman of the format) but it is tutorable should you need it. I guess that's a meta call if anything.

Are there any cards from Ikoria/C20 you're interested in slotting in? The two that come to mind are Deflecting Swipe and Fierce Guardianship. I'm also tempted by Drannith Magistrate (although it is a creature).

Zodiac137 You can totally still run this lest without LED and Twister, most of the lines will still be in the list. Just now, your main breach line will revolve around Smothering Tithe and increase your whiff rate. Also without LED, you would have to substantially revise the list, i.e put RIP back in and rely less on the yard for example. Echo of Eons exist for twister loops too. As for the moxes, you will hurt your cmc curve very hard slowing the deck down. It might knock it to High Power 7 or 8/10.

Frozocrone its been talked about, but due to Dockside and Gilded Drake, I haven't put it in the list. So yeah its a meta call. Deflecting Swat for sure is in. I'm iffy on Fierce. Drannith to me won't be in this list for now, but if I decided to go for a more control build, i'd run it.

Hey Zodiac137. I understand your budget/proxy concerns. The thing is, chrome mox and mox Diamond significantly increase the chances of having proactive early turns, and also keep you going when you draw your deck. It’s very tough to justify cutting these cards. You can do pretty much the same combo line as LED with a lotus petal, but you’ll make 2 less mana each time.

Flash_Andretti,thanks for the reply. I found on your Jan 31 updates when you start including LED, you also exclude Scepter + Reversal combo. So if I decided to cut LED because of budget issues, would you recommend me putting back Scepter + Reversal?

Zodiac137 you can do that, but you might have to slightly change some things so you could fit in an outlet for that mana.

Flash_Andretti Can you explain a bit about the inclusion of Brain Freeze? I don't think the deck need a backup Grapeshot because it is a dead card by itself. I see an obvious combo with Underworld Breach + Brain Freeze + LED, but does it worth it? Or am I missing something?

Zodiac137 it is not a backup. It's floor is codex shredder and its ceiling is winning the game. You can rid of top deck tutors, fuel your breach with material to combo off and this can be accomplished at instant speed to with elsha on the table. Remember redundancy is key in my list. I'm actively mulling and looking for the wins asap.

Here is the line:

Brainfreeze + LED + Underworld Breach (1R 3 other cards in GY/hand)
1.) Cast Underworld Breach.
2.) Cast Lion's Eye Diamond.
3.) Crack for .
4.) Escape Brainfreeze exiling any 3 cards besides LED, targeting yourself with all 3.

You can repeat the above 3 steps as necessary until you can get the storm count high enough to mill out your opponents or assemble a different win-condition with breach. If you don't have 3 other cards in hand/GY for whatever reason the loop can be performed for by casting brainfreeze before cracking Lion's Eye Diamond.

Additional Line:

Brainfreeze from Intuition (2U|2W the following turn. 8 other cards in GY/Hand)

1.) On the opponent's end step before your turn, cast Intuition. Find Lion's Eye Diamond, Sevinne's Reclamation, and Underworld Breach. Presumably they give you Sevinne's here.
2.) Go to your turn, untap and cast Sevinne's targeting Underworld Breach.
3.) Escape LED exiling 3 cards that aren't Intuition.
4.) Crack LED for .
5.) Escape Intuition exiling 3 cards that aren't LED, find Brainfreeze and any free cards that you can put into your GY (lotus petal/mishra's bauble/gitaxian probe).
6.) Get whatever card they gave you into the GY.
7.) Escape LED exiling 3 cards that aren't Brainfreeze.
8.) Crack LED for .
9.) Escape Brainfreeze exiling 3 cards that aren't LED

Repeat bracketed steps as necessary.

Thoughts on the exclusion of Fierce Guardianship and Drannith Magistrate? I thought they were too good not to include in basically any deck that can legally run it.

Especially Guardianship since you run Deflecting Swat, which to my understanding is sorta worse when trying to protect our combos?