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Legality
| Format | Legality |
| 1v1 Commander | Legal |
| Archenemy | Legal |
| Canadian Highlander | Legal |
| Casual | Legal |
| Commander / EDH | Legal |
| Commander: Rule 0 | Legal |
| Custom | Legal |
| Duel Commander | Legal |
| Highlander | Legal |
| Legacy | Legal |
| Leviathan | Legal |
| Limited | Legal |
| Oathbreaker | Legal |
| Planechase | Legal |
| Premodern | Legal |
| Quest Magic | Legal |
| Tiny Leaders | Legal |
| Vanguard | Legal |
| Vintage | Legal |
Desperate Research
Sorcery
Name a card other than a basic land card. Then reveal the top seven cards of your library and put all of them with that name into your hand. Remove the rest from the game.
steeplejack on
Rat Colony Army
3 years ago
I like the deck. Maybe replacing Desperate Research with Demonic Consultation. Essentially the same card, but Demonic Consultation costs one less mana and is an instant. Phyrexian Reclamation to get a Rat Colony back into your hand or a Whip of Erebos for lifelink.
JuQ on
RELENTESS RATS G/B
6 years ago
I like the deck. Capitalizing on being the only player with several cards of the same name is great. I would remove some of the higher costs (like Deadbridge Chant, Ratcatcher Doubling Chant) to get some card draw Elemental Bond, Mouth / Feed, Shamanic Revelation, Life's Legacy, Deathreap Ritual...
Desperate Research feels counterproductive having Thrumming Stone as your star card. Maybe a Diabolic Tutor is a better budget alternative.
Maybe Meren of Clan Nel Toth would be a better commander in this deck than Jarad.
Another nice card here can be Soul Foundry
Hybrow on
[EDH] - Relentless Rats - eRATicate
6 years ago
I play a Shadowborn Apostle deck and find we have alot of the same cards. Although my guys are cheaper than the rats and I am always trying to kill mine off. But there are a couple cards I find handy and you might too:
Desperate Research - I found this works great in my Apostles.
Westvale Abbey Flip - I dont know how often you cycle through rats, but this might be nice.
Dictate of Erebos - A second flashing Grave Pact might be nice.
Clay_Puppington on
7 years ago
Hi Mate.
I like seeing what you've done with the tinkered list, and in an effort to make my own work better, I'd like to ask you about your changes.
Below, I've just included the cards unique to your list (and my general thoughts on them in the overall shell).
I was hoping you might correct my thinking about the cards (written below), with your own reasons for including them so that I may give them more fair consideration to bringing into my own work.
Boseiju, Who Shelters All - Without being able to protect Doomsday or Grenzo on cast, I was wondering what you were using this to protect.
Balthor the Defiled - What is Balthor being used for? He seems to be a big hit off ad nauseum. My original guess was his use being added to the KiZC pile as the fifth card for protection, but I'm not sure if he's the strongest option for it. If you eat a boardwipe, you should be able to respond by just stacking instant speed interactions. If the wipe is successful, Grenzo would be dead to and won't be able to bring Balthor in to get his ability off. I don't see a lot of buried alive effects to force balthor into play and reanimate a combo. His ability is also quite expensive. I could see a use for playing him, combo parts in hand, using LED to discard the hand, and then reanimating with Balthor, but I feels a Buried Alive combo would be cheaper and more efficient. So I was just wondering what your reason for his inclusion is.
Gorilla Shaman - Removal is nice, but the main stax issues for Grenzo are stax pieces that prevent activated abilties from being used, which means he can't remove the main stax creatures. What are the main targets for removal with him?
Collective Brutality - I dont mind this, and may try it out. I'm not sure if early on Grenzo wants to be spending precious black on the effects, but I'll certainly give it a run and see what happens.
Deathmark - Nice cheap stax removal, but feels to limited in the colours it can hit. Is this a meta call?
Desperate Research - I just worry about exiling combo parts. I know we run a similar effect with Plunge into Darkness, but plunge operates on instant speed to dodge Codex Shredder and shuffle effects, and has synergies with top and scroll rack. When do you find yourself getting the most value out of Desperate Research? How often do you exile important combo parts when? What are you usually hunting for?
Pentad Prism - I'd be worried about only ever casting this for 1R or 1B, and only getting a single counter on it preventing it from paying for itself. Would not something like the newly tested Springleaf Drum work better for you?
Firestorm - With the amount of board-wipes and removal that the deck uses, is another necessary? How often do you have cards you want to pitch to the effect?
Volcanic Fallout - I don't dislike it, but as above, we certainly run a good deal of wipes already. Do you often need extras? Do you generally have the excess red mana to cast this?
Price of Glory - I'll be testing this in my own list. Good tech.
Seal of Fire - Not a bad single mana T1 drop if you open with red. Would you rather use this or Lightning Bolt (for the extra damage)?
I'd appreciate if you could clarify your new card choices. I'm always looking to improve my deck and primer, so any ideas you have that have I would certainly love to hear about. You can find me either on TappedOut (as you've already done), reddit, or the cEDH discord.
Thanks for taking the time to explain your card selection to me!
FAMOUSWATERMELON on
The Euler Line
8 years ago
Happy that you like it so far :)
So first off, Petal and Trespass do exactly as you assumed they do, namely speeding up the game and delving away. The fact of the matter is, I basically can't compete with most forms of aggro, because to win, I usually need to resolve Intuition (3 mana), a delve spell (around 3 mana), a Hedron (3 mana), and often, a Cunning Wish (3 mana), for a total of 12 mana, all while keeping some lands open for counterspells. In that respect, the Petals are huge for basically just speeding up a turn or two. However, if I do take the long control route (as you suggested), they could definitely be replaced. As for the Trespass, regardless of the delve, resolving an extra turn spell usually straight out wins the game for me, because I almost always have access to the right cards, I'm just a bit slow, and the Trespass gives me the time I need to win. So I doubt that it's coming out.
The CounterTop combo would definitely be the best choice should I choose to drop the more aggressive approach. I'm still on the edge about that decision, but I'll keep those two in mind.
The problem with things like Desperate Research and Divining Witch is that they have no guarantee of hitting what I need. By the time I cast them, I almost always have a Hedron in hand, meaning that the chances of finding one are rather slim.
Psychatog looks hilarious. And actually good. Definitely seems like a worthy option.
So I guess the final question is, what's better, the slow control approach or the aggressive find-the-combo-asap approach?
titanreaver on
The Euler Line
8 years ago
I love the concept. Mostly because I try to play any card that says you win on it. However, I am not sure I like the Lotus Petal or Temporal Trespass. I know it seems nice to speed up your mana a bit, and a second method to delve away a Hedron Alignment also seems nice but I wonder how often those particular options will me the most effective. I personally think you would be better off sitting behind a stronger counter sweet, would ultimately work out better. I like the age old Sensei's Divining Top Counterbalance combo would be quite effective. Now if you do like the more aggressive approach, I like the idea of splashing in black, and playing something like Desperate Research, or even Divining Witch, which could get three of your for conditions set on a single activation. You could even bring back Psychatog since he could be a big enabler for you, and a blocker, or go on the offensive. If you don't want to splash black, I think something like False Memories and maybe Relic of Progenitus could be quite good and would function as both onboard hate on dredge and reanimator as well as an enabler for you.