Designer's Workshop 1 Feedback

Card Design

squire1

16 March 2013

2250 views

Wow everyone!. Thanks for all the participation. A lot of really great designs. So last time i asked you to design your dream cards and well. I think I can honestly say you all have some messed up dreams. No, for eal though. There were some really great designs. The point of this exercise was to promote you thinking about fun design. Thinking about what you want. Since we have done that. I am going to take a look at some of your designs and give some feedback on them. Which of your dream cards could be cards, should be cards, etc from a more practical view this time.

As you will see with my card, sometimes dreams are meant to stay dreams.

My card is a serious issue. Some cards spit in the face of a small rule here or there. Mine breaks all of the rules for tokens. How does it work? Not sure. I think if a token gets bounced, it can never be cast again. I am fine with that. IN fact that is the idea. Same with graveyard. I just want them to count in the graveyard for Mortal Combat type shenanigans. My card, unfortunately will never get printed. I really want it to though. It is as Johnnitastic as I can imagine. Point is that dream cards do not have to live in reality, but we have to consider reality to understand what can be designed to be printable cards.

Below I will take a look at some of your cards that were submitted and discuss some reality considerations as well as guttural reactions. These are not meant to be criticisms, merely considerations for thinking about designing. I want all of you to discuss below. I did not discuss all the cards because...well, I kinda don't have that much time. I picked some highlights. Not based on anything other than my personal desire to discuss them.

squire1 's comments:
This was the first card that really hit me. This may seem like Grave Titan on the surface, but in the wake of the battalion mechanic, I couldn't think of an ability that is more Boros than the token ability on this. Now I think overall this is a bit much. I would take off the giving haste and knighthood. Maybe even drop the cost, but really some great thinking in this card.
squire1 's comments:
I loved this design on first read. It is so great in the colors. The internal synergy is great. I think it costs about right, but by the time you have that much mana, do you really need this guy? Also WOTC is very careful with repeatable removal. I could see the CC being 4RUG
squire1 's comments:
I think this is a great green version of BloodMoon. I am not sure why is is a creature. I almost want it to be a 1GG Sorcery. I do like the idea though. This could be crazy in a landfall deck, in the right deck it could be a sourt of Scapeshift. Interesting design though.
squire1 's comments:
Right off the bat, I see a green Heartless Summoning. Very cool. I think to make it the right power level though it should be just

"Creature spells you cast cost 2 less.
You can’t cast spells, except for creature spells."

And mabye 3 CMC. This would make it closer to a green Heartless Summoning. It would have a great efect with a slight (green flavored) drawback. The other way seemed a little too awesome. Really fun!
squire1 's comments:
I saw this one and I couldn't decide if it was really strong or really weak. I love and hate cards like this. Mostly because I underestimate them, trade them away, ande then they are worth tons. I like it though. I think it is a simple and clean hoser.
squire1 's comments:
This is, to me, one of the best combinations of what red and blue draw look like. I would play this like crazy. Simple as that.
squire1 's comments:
ALright KC, tell me what makes this broken. It doesn't excite me, but I am missing something. To me this just means yo have a second graveyard. I am not so sure about that.
squire1 's comments:
So Misthollow Griffin became popular with some, but WOTC has indicated that too many effects like this, or strong effects like this, basically create a second graveyard/library which is not the most desirable. I do like the idea here though.
squire1 's comments:
Love it. Whatever watchdogs WOTC has, please run back to Maro and tell him to print this immediately. The randomness of red is often poorly portrayed or only portrayed in rares. This could easily come in at lower rarity.
squire1 's comments:
Let's talk planewalkers shal we. The hardest cards to design I think. The balance is so delicate. With this guy, the +1 makes it unprintable. It is way too strong. Bouncing opponent's creatures or your own, looking at you swag/Restoration Angel, while making this guy stronger is no good. The 0 ability I think is appropriate. I have no issues there. The -4 is a bit OP. I think that just the "Whenever three or more creatures you control attack, tap all creatures and lands target opponent controls" portion is enough. Great to go with the Boros thing. Basically a solid card except the blue in it.
squire1 's comments:
Purity is a concept that has floated around for a long time. Personally I think it lacks the awe of a new mechanic, however it has a nice effect of making cards that expensive decks ($200 land bases) do not have as easy a time accessing. This card in general; however has identity issues. It needs at least some blue or black or both.
squire1 's comments:
I like the flavor of what this is trying to achiev, but I am confused. Other than going around indestructibility and regeneration by countering, I don't get how this is different than "~ deals 4 damage to target creature. Well I guess it stops ETB effects too. IDK, it seems odd. I knida like it. Thoughts?
squire1 's comments:
Love it, except it needs to tap. I know I know. Sorry. Otherwise it ia an easy infinite combo piece. I do really like it though.
squire1 's comments:
I think the first ability puts this over the top. It is goodI like having to pay life for dredge. This card could work. Or it could be terribly broken. Not sure.
squire1 's comments:
This is a a really nice design that is waiting to be broken. Channel says hi.
squire1 's comments:
Yes please.

So please discuss below. I will be back in a few with a new article.

This article is a follow-up to Designer's Workshop 1 The next article in this series is Designer's Workshop 2

Glen654 says... #1

Vengeful purist would mess up legacy so hard, it's completely unfair.

March 16, 2013 3:02 p.m.

RussischerZar says... #2

The Fiery Barrage would be a red answer to things like a Thragtusk. Also things like a Primordial Hydra or a Nimbus Swimmer could be easily stopped with any amount of X. It would work against hexproof and shroud, as well as protection and regeneration (although those aren't really that common anymore). Basically a kind of red counterspell.

Actually this could be worked into a keyword, like:
Spellburn (This spell may target a creature spell instead of a creature permanent. If a creature spell is targeted this way, the damage this spell would normally deal is compared to the printed toughness of the creature spell. If the toughness is equal or lower to the damage, the spell is countered. If it isn't, the spell will resolve normally but the creature enters the battlefield with damage marked on it equal to the damage this spell would normally deal.)

March 16, 2013 3:16 p.m.

Rewdog says... #3

"Jorek The Enforcer" could have a frost effect +1, the same as Tamiyo, the Moon Sage. Or some sort of draw effect?

March 16, 2013 4:44 p.m.

KrazyCaley says... #4

It's perhaps a bit overcosted, mine. I was worried that costing it too low would seriously break it. Ideas that I can think of for that card include tightly controlling your graveyard and using this card to draw things that you want to use over and over and over.

You're right, it basically just turns your graveyard into another library, but I thought that would be a neat effect for people who a- have decks that can manipulate their graveyards properly, or b- Had very good knowledge of their deck and can predict whether they will get a better draw from the graveyard or the library.

March 16, 2013 6:05 p.m.

MindAblaze says... #5

Peaceful slumber seems like it could be very interesting, very nice. Sacred forest could I think afford to be as written for 4GG, and acute cultivation seems interesting. Tutor for any land at instant speed and cantrip? Yes, I'm in.

I think my card teeters on the line between broken and unplayable. It takes some sort of manipulation to get the right positioning, but then you pick the card out of your graveyard that makes you win, in theory.

March 16, 2013 6:35 p.m.

zandl says... #6

My card needs the "shuffle"-clause after searching for a land card. Oops.

March 16, 2013 9:34 p.m.

squire1 says... #7

Yeah. I forgot that. Good card anyway.

March 16, 2013 9:41 p.m.

zandl says... #8

I forgot to include it when I submitted it - my bad.

I just thought "What would I love to have in a 2-4-6 mana-cost ramp deck, like Wolf Run from last season?"

March 16, 2013 9:59 p.m.

GureiSeion says... #9

@KrazyCaley - I could totally see an Esper deck running that alongside Peaceful Slumber. Imaginary WotC should probably reprint Paraselene in that imaginary set.

March 16, 2013 10:41 p.m.

MindAblaze says... #10

I think Hell's Edict is awesome. It should probably cost RB though because its bleeding a Mind Control/Rise from the Grave effect into mono-red. As for Purity...it's interesting, but I think "this card may only be cast by mana produced by Basic Lands" would be sufficient for wording, or "lands that share a color identity with this card" could be another way to look at it. This way it's hard for anything but RDW to run this, and run it they would.

I think Gripjaw would be a perfect commander if he cost 4RUG. Maybe a tad win-more in any other format though.

Valas is really strong. Good synergy with Boros, except at 6 mana you should have most of your creatures out of your hand, so you wouldn't activate Knighthood as much as you'd think.

Mad Bomber is probably my 2nd favorite of all the chosen cards, although I'd like it if it cost 2R...maybe that's greedy though lol

March 16, 2013 11:29 p.m.

MindAblaze says... #11

Also, if Tokens are cards they have a CMC of zero by extension, so I guess the question is... If it ends up in your hand does it act like Living End but with no alternate cost?
I guess...discard your hand?

March 16, 2013 11:50 p.m.

squire1 says... #12

No mana cost is different than zero mana cost. There is a card with no mana cost. It's a splice card. I forget what it is. But you can't a it on its own. I think tokens old end up the same way.

March 17, 2013 8:50 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #13

The non-land cards with no casting cost are Evermind, Restore Balance, Ancestral Vision, Living End, Wheel of Fate, Hypergenesis, and Lotus Bloom. Empty costs can't be paid, so the only way to cast them is by way of an effect that lets you cast something "without paying its mana cost" (like the Time Spiral cards do for themselves with the Suspend ability).

March 17, 2013 1 p.m.

squire1 says... #14

Exactly. That is what would happen to the tokens. I just want to bounce a token army and then play Storm Seeker. Or wrath my token army for a beastly Mortivore

March 17, 2013 1:25 p.m.

Re: Vengeful Purist

My concept for the card was a militant environmentalist. The kind of person who spray paints fur coats, sits in front of dozers, and burned her bra despite not having any real need for one. Maybe the art would include some cats. I was also thinking of the Lorwyn elves and how they were obsessed with perfection. The idea of a land that is both a swamp and forest would probably offend a purist. Hence, the card is a creature and an elf.

The number of lands it might destroy is completely unfair. In return, you get one basic. That's why the casting cost is so specific - 1GGG. I thought about making it 1RGG. You might need to play non-basics to cast her. But the mixed mana cost flies in the face of the purist concept and mana fixing can be achieved easily without lands... especially with elves. Still, I'd fully expect the card to be banned in EDH. Not so sure about legacy.

March 18, 2013 5:17 p.m.

If tokens could be cast with no mana cost, storm decks would rampage.

March 18, 2013 5:20 p.m.

MindAblaze says... #17

@ Rewdog

On Jorek The Enforcer

I like what you're thinking here, this is a planeswalker for a tempo build. I'm wondering, would giving a creature haste work better as the +1, and bouncing be either a 0 or a -1...I know Jace, the Mind Sculptor was OP with his -1 being that very ability. But he also had a fateseal to keep you ahead...so that's a different story.

You might be onto something with the Frost effect...it's strong for tempo, as it makes a threat go away...but I still think I agree with squire1 that protection as a + effect is too strong.

What do you think about dropping the "your opponent may not cast spells or activate abilities..." rider on the ultimate?

March 19, 2013 1:15 p.m.

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