New Permanents/Objects after Zone changes
Asked by Temporal_Inept 6 years ago
So, I'm pretty sure the answer to these is no but want to confirm.
I have a creature and cast Undying Evil targeting the creature. The creature comes back from graveyard with +1/+1 counter. If I had a way of removing the counter would the creature still have undying?
I use Neurok Transmuter to turn a creature into an artifact and then Master Transmuter to return that creature to my hand. Can I use the second part of the ability to put the creature back into play or does it cease to be an artifact once it goes to hand?
The effect granting Undying ends at the end of turn (because that's what the spell says) or whenever the permanent changes zones (because that's what the rules say), whichever happens first. In deeper detail, CR 400.7 states "An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence. There are nine exceptions to this rule:", then lists those exceptions as subrules (400.7a through 400.7j), but none of those applies to this case.Yet, when the creature goes to the graveyard, state-based actions are checked and the game sees it had Undying, so the ability triggers and goes to the stack. By the time the trigger would resolve, the creature card in the graveyard no longer has Undying, but this doesn't prevent the ability from resolving (it was already on the stack). The ability does find the creature due to exception 400.7d, so it will come back and get the +1/+1 counter.Bonus: if, in addition to getting rid of the counter, you somehow grant Undying to the "new" creature, it could come back again. Also, if you have a creature with Undying (as part of the creature's text, so it doesn't "go away" that easily) and can get rid of its counters, it could come back over and over again.
Here comes a pedantic technicality, but understanding it may help with many rules questions: an "artifact" and an "artifact card" mean slightly different things (the same would apply to "creature" and "creature card", and also for other permanent and card types).When some effect refers to an "artifact", it referes to a permanent on the battlefield with the permanent type "Artifact"; when it says "artifact card" it means a card, in any zone, with the card type "Artifact". Most cards with the card type "Artifact" become permanents with the type "Artifact" when they enter the battlefield, but effects can add or remove types from permanents (Neurok Transmuter is a good example of adding a type to a permanent). So you may have a creature card, that became a creature (a type of permanent) upon entering the battlefield, and then was given another permanent type by some effect: this doesn't change the card type, unless the effect explicitly says so (there are some that do change card types of cards not in the battlefield, but those are worded very explicitly). Even if the creature were granted the artifact card type while on the battlefield by some object, once it gets bounced by Master Transmuter it changes zones, so as per 400.7 (mentioned earlier) that type-changing effect would lose track of it. By the time you get to the second part of the Master's effect, that card is definitely not an artifact card. Notice how the same ability uses just "artifact" to refer to the permanent type, but explicitly states "artifact card" to refer to the card type.
JWiley129 says... Accepted answer #1
You answered yourself correctly, both are nos.
The creature brought back would not have undying because abilities granted by spells, enchantments, and artifacts won't stick around.
No, because while the creature is legal to return it will no longer be an Artifact when it changes zones.
January 27, 2018 12:08 p.m.