How teferi's ageless insight interacts with other cards
Asked by Monomanamaniac 3 years ago
So this question focuses on Teferi's Ageless Insight and how it interacts with cards that tell you to do things on top of drawing a card. I've heard with Jace, Mirror Mage that it drastically affects his ability, letting you draw 2 and reveal neither and neither does damage to jace. So That got me to wondering about other effects, like Brain storm or like Teferi, Master of Time, The Royal Scions, Sylvan Library, or Riddlesmith. Does the replacement ability not effect the "then" portion, as in it only works for jace because it says "and reveal it," or does it replace the ability altogether, negating the negative effects?
Monomanamaniac says... #2
That makes sense, so you're just replacing the draw sentence. The reason jace is different because the reveal is part of the draw sentence, because you don't reveal any cards he doesn't lose loyalty. I mean draw 2 and discard 1 is still decent
November 7, 2020 11:13 p.m.
I don't know if that's how it works for Jace or not, the syntax for that card is awkard enough I wouldn't feel remotely comfortable saying one way or another. I'm not even entirely certain my understanding is correct for something more simple like Riddlesmith, so, ya know, grains of salt and what not. I'd definitely recommend asking Synergy, he's judged events and keeps up with rules updates pretty well so he's a good person to ask this kind of stuff.
November 7, 2020 11:15 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #4
Ruling on Jace, Mirror Mage to show that it works as OP stated.
If the card draw from Jace’s last ability is modified by a replacement effect, you don’t reveal any card, even if the draw was replaced by one or more card draws. No loyalty counters will be removed from Jace in that case.
The reason that Jace, Mirror Mage works like that is that "draw and reveal" is a single action performed on the card. Since that action includes drawing a card, it is replaced by drawing two cards and nothing is having you reveal those cards. Since no card was revealed the CMC is undefined and no counters are removed.
All of the other cards you mentioned have you draw cards as one action and then perform another action and only the drawing portion of the abilities are replaced. Teferi's Ageless Insight is still synergistic with all of those cards though, since the other portions of the effects are not doubled as well.
November 7, 2020 11:37 p.m.
Bam.
Critical syntax component explained. Thanks Gidgetimer.
So as long as the draw portion of text contains an "and" that relegates the remaining portion of that sentence to be part of the same action that whole action should be replaced with instead drawing a pair of cards, but syntax with a "then" or a period should separate the portions into two distinct actions that are part of any single ability.
November 7, 2020 11:43 p.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #6
The period mark denotes 2 separate actions. Simple enough
November 7, 2020 11:45 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
It isn't always a period is the problem. Brainstorm, Teferi, Master of Time and The Royal Scions all use commas. Armistice doesn't use any punctuation, but it is still two actions.
The best way to think about it is if you draw a card, and then perform an action with specifically that card it will all be replaced. If you draw a card and then perform an action not related to cards, an action on any of a number of cards, or an action on a targeted card only the card draw will be replaced.
Right now Jace, Mirror Mage is the only card that fits into the first category.
jaymc1130 says... #1
For most circumstances the negative effects should not be negated. Syntax is liable to matter here, but as an example, from my understanding (and know that I'm not a rules expert or a judge, SynergyBuild is a better to person to ask for these types of questions) Riddlesmith says draw a card the replacement effect takes place, you draw two, then you complete the second half of the ability and discard a card. The card draw part required for the "if you do, then discard" portion of text still occurred, that draw was just modified before resolution to draw more than one. Since you still elected to complete that portion of the ability, the second portion then also resolved to complete the resolution of the full ability.
November 7, 2020 11:05 p.m.