Social structuring and creature types
Custom Cards forum
Posted on May 21, 2010, 8:50 p.m. by squire1
From the original thread that Zanvan wrote. This was the story so far:
An unnamed planewalker, henceforth referred to as Bob the Builder, responsible for sucking the mana from and shattering Alara, created a series of artificial planes (or shards) in the Blind Eternities. These shards would normally fall apart on their own due to the nature of artificial planes, so he decided to force the shards into one plane, Andara (I know that we are not set on this yet). A few hundred years later on that plane is where the players come in. This gives some time for societies to build. I would say that this block will just be called Andara.
The shards that are pushed together are: Oturo-GWB, Kilgar-UWR, Avora-BUG, Sorok-BWR, Irindu-RGB (i know that they are not the names yet just working with them). Each shard in the whole of Andara are like imagining Pangaea sliced into 5 equalish sized pieces with each having fairly specific topography and climate that have made them conducive for different societies and groups of creatures to gather.
OTURO
Oturo is filled with wide reaching Savannah and glades, but as one ventures deeper and deeper into the forests and farther from the heart of Oturo, the ground becomes slightly bogged and more desolate. In this shard there are two Major tribes the Gladeparters and the Tharin'l, both of elves. The Gladeparters are centered around true democracy and hold their tribal council with the Tharin'l though they get along less and less as the year go on. Both tribes believe in order in nature and are willing to die for it. Nature is nearly worshiped by these elves in a religious fashion.
The Tharin'l tribe is a younger group of elves led by Asphirith. Asphirith believes that all of nature is important, but on the outskirts of Oturo has discovered the power that the decomposers have. He and his followers seek to control the tribal council and begin to worship the decay and death in nature. Some of the Tharin'l become necromancers, taking their worship to a level of admiration and emulation.
The Gladeparters led by Doreer, the elder, follow the normal worship of nature and realize the plans of the youth around them but decide as a group to not devise a plan against them. All that they concentrate on is that nature and right will prevail and that they will gladly die protecting both.
Both societies have the technology level of an iron age central African society. They have Iron weapons and armor, yet their buildings are more hut like in nature, some on the ground and some in the trees. Neither architecture nor creating artifacts is a focus of this nation.
Main creature types would be: elf, beast, zombie
Kilgar
Kilgar I imaging is like western Russia. It has huge Mountain ranges separated by rivers and an occasional flat land. Griffins live in these lands grazing in the fields and roosting throughout the mountain tops. Minotaur and goblins live together, mining and trading together. This is at least how it was a long time ago. After a great deal of time one goblin, named Burg became very wealthy as a successful miner. His children became very accustomed to living a wealthy lifestyle and had no desire to work the mines. This began to happen to two other families that would be important in modern day, the Rilds and the Finuubs. These families were all rich beyond their dreams and began to hire other goblins to go to trade with minotaurs and do things for them. At some point all of the goblins were working for the rich families and it had become a massive service industry. Around this point, the goblins wanted some swankier transportation, so they decided to enslave the griffins for their flight and magical capabilities. Some goblin scholars try to learn from this flying and magical ability and try to harness it. This is similar to the failed flying machine of early human history and the magical botched equivalent.
When the goblins had gotten their heads as swollen as the minotaurs could take, the leader of the minotaurs, Granketh Dur, cut off all trade with the goblins until the Burgs, Rilds, and Finuubs would need to renegotiate the trading contracts. The goblins agreed but in the middle of the negotiations Granketh became enraged at how insulting the goblin leadership were, stating that the goblins "looked down" upon the minotaurs for doing their hard labor. The goblins decided to cut off all trade with the minotaur and instead make fun of them by starting a new trend. The hierarchy of society was decided by who could afford to build the highest homes, some of which were strait up in the air and fell quite regularly. This came accompanied with the wearing of different size stilts that denoted hierarchical status. The problem became that since the goblins no longer produced anything and they no longer traded, they all secretly became scavengers, having to use stolen or broken items to create their own status symbols and home. Some of the goblins even became river pirates, and stole from the minotaurs as much as they could. Goblins are named by family so one might be a Burg stable boy.
The minotaurs live in the caves they mine in or on the land, they feel no need to have more than they need. They use some magic to help them live. They are often miners, traders, builders, sailors/fisherman, fire mages, earth mages. Minotaurs are named by region for example Granketh Dur is of the Dur mountain range, so there are also Dur miners, Dur firemages, etc.
Avora
Avora is a simple place. Imagine a peat bog with a dense canopy cover that makes everything perpetually dark. The waters in this region are a network of underground rivers, and the standing water in the bogs and estuaries that go from salt to brackish to fresh water. The easy way to describe this place is dangerous. Everything is deadly, poisonous, and all the ground that would seem to be solid is at least 4 inches thick of writhing insects. This area has no real society. There are only loose hive like insect colonies and colonies of fungus that attach to trees and clump together for survival. Most species found here can mate and procreate shortly after they are born and eat nearly anything as survival is key.
Creatures that can be found here are: Frog,Fungus, Crocodile, Lizard, Leech, Insect, Ooze, Slug, Serpent, Salamander, Snake, Spider,Scorpion
Sorok
Sorok is scrublands that lead to a treacherous volcanic range. The people here are ruled by a harsh tyrannical dictator G'reil Tvoul. He is the child of a demon and an angel. He leads a group of people who worship the prophetic teachings of old Sorok. The teachings state that "our suffering and confusion continues due to infidelity to the laws" and that "our suffering will be ended when the world dies and the phoenix fire extinguishes". The sad, torn and repentant demons and angels that live in this land follow these teachings to a misinterpreted T. Much how many religions may. They all worship the phoenixes that live in the volcano and are careful not to break the laws of their people. Because they take the laws so seriously, a new class, Judge, will be put in place. Judges are like those of judge dread but in the dark ages. they are judge, jury, and executioner. Punishment here is always harsh but just in the eyes of the inhabitants, eye for an eye mentality.
Because they misinterpret the prophecies they think that their suffering will end and that they will be reborn like the phoenix, what the prophecy really means is that when the world ends and even the phoenix die forever, then all suffering will end. Because they think that the whole ending is best to end suffering, they seek to destroy Andora and break it apart as well as anything that stands in their way. They have only loyalty to their laws and cause of world destruction.
Creatures found here would be: Human, Demon, Angel, Phoenix, Rogue, cleric, Knight, Judge and tyrant.
Irindu
I see this as similar to native American and Aztec cultures. The societal structure for humans is that they have a tribal council with the treefolk and Faeries. All three groups worship the elements (elementals) as god-lilke creatures and respect the various beast of the land, though they hunt them. The sage-like thinker of these groups observe and document the world around them and create artifacts to help others understand (solar calendar, maps) and weapons (bows and axes and other equipment). These are all a simple people that live off the land and have some large structures built but mostly clay huts and long cabin-esque buildings.
Creatures I see here are: Bears, squirrels, humans, elementals, faeries, treefolk, horses, elk, etc.
I'm going to have a hard look at this with Zanven tomorrow. Look out for the reply. :)
May 22, 2010 3:57 a.m.
the underdevelopedness of AVora was on purpose. I figured that it would give a landscape for events to happen. Many stories focus on people as character far too much. Person vs. environment is just as important a paradigm.
The Sorok legions could have to travel through this shard to reach a battle and find one that they never expected in the bogs.
Or they can be used as a metaphor as the bogs in Neverending story were.
May 22, 2010 6:28 a.m.
mistergreen527 says... #5
This looks fantastic! Very well thought out.
I do tend to agree with I_Call_BS about Avora though. Maybe we could have a small civilization, struggling to survive. This will still reflect the person vs. environment conflict, but it will give us specific people attached to the shard so that we could better show the people vs. people aspect of the game.
For Deadline 1, it seems that Irindu is going to be the plane that we present to the community and work on first. I need the Creative Team to decide if the summary of Irindu shown here is what they want to present, or if there needs to be any changes. Also, I would like the Creative Team to decide how structured you want the article to be. Do you want the community brainstorm general ideas for Irindu? Do you want the community to create specific characters? Do you want the community to vote on creature types? Another idea? Let me know just how much feedback you're looking to get.
May 22, 2010 11:21 a.m.
It does look good, but there are some changes I definitely want to slide in there before it's presented.
As this is an artificial plane in the first place, I wanted to try and avoid a long-established culture/cultural history. Every denizen on every shard should be like a transplant from somewhere else in the MtG universe.
I also want it to be the inverse of the Alara shards, so I want to avoid the Naya-esque feel that's currently in play for Irindu; it should be the opposite. Instead of revering nature and beasts, they should be revering the Flow. Nature is essential to the flow because they seek to harmonize with all things, but it takes a secondary place compared to magic and raw mana. This is a plane of wizards moreso than shamans.
Humans, Weirds, Spellshapers etc are using the abundance of green mana to super-charge their red and blue spells.
Currently there's three entirely separate write-ups for Irindu :
The original presented by the community and Xander -> Irindu is in a constant change of flux. The landscapes and denizens are always morphing just a little bit, making maps pointless. People may mutate a little bit at random due to the sluice/Flow running through everything. As mentioned, change is the only constant, so shapeshifters, wizards and free thinkers are always on their toes. The (unbeknownst to the players or the people in Irindu) cause of the Flow is an ancient evil buried deep in the land.
Mine -> I wrote two different angles at mistergreen's request. A world where RG teamed up against blue, and a world where RU was drawing off the G shard. Essentially it is a plane of big creatures due to the mana source, but wizard-touched, so they have odd magical abilities that don't normally appear on these types of creatures.
Squire's -> See above.
Basically I'd like to mix all three together.
May 22, 2010 5:07 p.m.
1) Main focus is the Flow. Flow is the mechanic here and it is a great mechanic and a great source of flavor.
2) Big creatures are present in Squire and my write-ups. I like this and it's green, so it fits. I think there should be big magical beasts/weirds/mutants etc, but instead of being revered, they were either created on purpose by sluice mages or by accident due to their experiments. They are to be studied and further experimented on, not worshipped.
3) This, and all shards, are still artificial shards. If there is any nature to be communed with, it would be bizarre and unwholesome, unlike real nature in Magic. I like the original concept that Irindu is in a constant flux, so change is important.
What do these all mix together to make?
RGU Shard : Irindu.
The shard of Irindu is a place steeped in Green mana, being spurred on by Red mana and Blue mana to explore, twist and sample all aspects of life and wizardry. Mages, spellshapers and druids alike find themselves transplanted into this strange landscape of constantly changing rivers, bizarre vegetation and mutated creatures.
The Flow is ever-present; raw, surging mana that travels through the landscape and the creatures living here, which it changes in both frightening and beneficial ways. Even the most simple of creatures would be akin to a chameleon; something like changing color would be considered mundane.
I'd like the community to always (for each shard) to suggest and subsequently vote on three things.
May 22, 2010 5:08 p.m.
1) What kind of creatures would you like to see in this Shard? Please make sure you stay within the colors, RGU. This means no Angels obviously, as they do not fit. This shard is a little more lenient than most due to the nature of the Flow causing shapeshifting and erratic mutations. Although we have shapeshifters potentially, I do NOT want changelings. Most changelings are that way naturally and not the result of mutation or mana-overdose. The nice thing about an artificial plane is being able to transplant some under-represented races like Gorgons, for example.
2) What kind of iconic character(s) would you like to represent this Shard? EG, Elspeth/Giltspire Avenger/Rafiq of the Many for Bant, Nicol Bolas for Grixis, etc. They don't need to be planeswalkers (even though I know one of the contests will be to create a planeswalker), but moreso characters that people associate with the set. The suggestions can be broad, like "a tough soldier" or "an evil vampire", or specific; I think the strange or not-so-good ideas will get filtered out by voting. I think this area is the most important to making the community feel involved.
3) What is something you've always wanted to see in Magic in general, or see more of? This isn't so much of a direct impact on the shard but is the kind of totally open brainstorming that can result in some pretty interesting stuff.
My main concern is that only a few people are going to comment or participate and that older/long time posters are going to end up shaping the project more than the community as a whole. Potentially some kind of Olympic Scoring would work where the highest and lowest are thrown out and the most common vote/perception is used. Let me know if you want a more detailed/specific article than this or if you just wanted the concept to be presented.
If you want, I can actually write the article that is going to be posted, or merely ideas for the article like this.
May 22, 2010 5:09 p.m.
well so far I do see and understand the criticisms of what I came up with so far. Though like any author I would like to defend all of my creations I get where people are coming from.
Irindu- I totally get the critiques, I liked what I came up with but my struggle to do so is apparent. It is not that interesting or well thought our
Avora - This one I want to stand up for a bit more. If there are any sentient beings we could make them incarnations to reflect the power of the primal forces that exist there. Maybe only 2-3 and they could be legendary. I think the real conflict should be sentients that travel through this region though.
I hope that we like the rest so far.
My two cents about input is that card design is what most people out there want to do. I would say that we should flesh out the story and give people specific cycles and creatures to work out. Creature types and such can be changed to mesh with stories and asilities.
May 22, 2010 6:26 p.m.
G'reil Tvoul. should have one angel wing and one demon wing, judge reminds of FF12 (i dont remember writing the thing i was quoted on...) RUG-when it comes down to how the magic works, it should be that Red and blue, the two spell heavy mana colors, use the fact that green mana is so abundant and powerfull to make there spells larger then life. we could do this by having large costing spells, but a ridiculous amount of mana ramp. Also the way flow works makes it so a expensive costing card could cost less, but may not fit a situation. for example a card that does 5 damage to target creature with a normal cost of 2R but then a flow cost of U but since it only happens when you draw the card, it would only be good if your opponent has a creature or if you have blue mana. (this is just an example) as creature classes go, i think dragons may work really well since 1) red magic(no explanation needed) 2) in classic fantasy dragons have very powerful magic abilities at the lvl of the most powerful wizards(blue) 3) THEY ARE BIG CREATURES (green) I mean the class most represented by blue green are snakes. blue red was noggles which is a class i do love but they are a little ridiculous. Also one of the more under represented classes in magic are dwarfs, which kinda fit in the sense that 1) mountain dwellers (red) 2) they definitely have green mana influence 3) the arent as hell bent as goblins and so very well could be blue magic users, also they are heavy into the creation of artifacts another blue magic relation.
i like the idea of avors only having 2-5 tarzan esc sentient beings, (lone beings grown in a world with no other sentience) (maybe one for each animal class). also we can have a heavy gorilla class so not sentient but they do have a society.
May 22, 2010 10:13 p.m.
No wonder I haven't been receiving notifications this is all happening else where.
Above idea is OP. Flow draws you cards most flow effects should cost way more but the base spells cost less. Certain cards that are bad to have in opening hand and aren't that great to flow could cost less (http://tappedout.net/media/concept-cards/tama-grimjaw-kobold.jpgGrimjaw Kobold).
To represent Sorok I think both Cavora and Fargrol. Irindu a dragon by the name of Tenfi, the unfurled scroll that has excellent synergy with flow but can only be morphed in. Oturu the thicketblend council members and wardens.
Irindu's core is in blue since that is the enemy colour. So your idea needs editing Zanven but other than that seems good.
I think Oturu needs Centaurs and Treefolk.
Remember the Core colours are
Black Oturu
Blue Irindu
Green Avora
White Sorok
Red Kilgar
May 24, 2010 9:22 p.m.
No it is a free chump. It replaces itself but it still costs a card so it is not a free draw. It is also a dead card in opening hand. As long as we don't print a mox scarab should be ok.
May 24, 2010 9:35 p.m.
that is still a bit scary for potential. flow should cost more than casting
May 24, 2010 9:48 p.m.
If flow costs more then casting it whats the point? also explain to me why the card draw after you cast it is important? it seems to make the ability over powerd, Free spell AND no change to card advantage?
IF you make it so that playing the card emediatly costs less to cast, but you dont recieve the card advantage it seems a little more balanced. I may be wrong
May 24, 2010 11:08 p.m.
All cards with flow WITHOUT draw would just be like giving that card flash; it would have to be adjusted as if it could be played at any time, so as to not be unfair. Flow costs more to play because of the draw- if it doesn't have it, it's useless.
May 25, 2010 12:16 a.m.
I don't mean to be snarky, but a half-demon half-angel creature is a literal walking cliche for me and I'd really, really like to try and avoid it. Don't worry about characters and flavor so much at the moment, it'll turn out alright.
I am very glad to see the mechanics being addressed though, I still don't know what they all are going to do or how they're worded, and knowing how these mechanics are going to turn out will help direct the kind of flavor we end up with.
May 25, 2010 12:20 a.m.
Flow costs more (usually) because it draws you a card. It instantly replaces itself in your hand, you lost no tempo.
I beleive the kobold is okay because it is a dead card in your hand (no Brainstorm or Primal Growth effects in this stanadard) and it is a tiny gain in terms of the actual game. So first turn on the draw you flow in this guy then draw your normal card. An Avora deck says 'eat removal', an Oturu deck says 'Oh well at least I gain more life to render myself with' a Kilgar deck says 'can it fly?' and a sorok deck says 'ok, chump block my cleaver'.
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UmbrotheUmbreon says... #21
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HarbingerJK says... #23
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I_Call_BS says... #2
Looks good! I especially enjoy Oturu. From reading this I see a few minor issues, but overall thumbs up. Avora seems very underdeveloped compared to the other shards. For the most part, it seems like a very dangerous world that has no sentient life, and therefore no story or conflict; a great setting is present, but no plot. This could be solved by adding a creature type that can speak and a problem. And Irindu seems VERY close to naya, with just a change in creature types. Probably won't be an issue; just the words "god-like" and "worship" kinda draws that image for me.
May 22, 2010 1:20 a.m.