Questions regarding color identity/color interaction
Asked by Rhonir 1 year ago
Good day,
I'm building a Jodah, Archmage Eternal deck and have two questions regarding the alternative cost and color identity of Jodah.
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As far as I understand it, Jodah's ability sets the cmc for a spell to WUBRG for the action "casting". After resolving the spell gets back its former cmc and therefore colorization. Is it right that cards like Obsidian Obelisk, Mana Cannons and Widespread Thieving therefore interact with spells that I cast for WUBRG although they are monocolored since those cards interact with the "casting" action?
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If I have those two permanents on the battlefield: Faeburrow Elder and Jodah, Archmage Eternal. Does Faeburrow Elder give me WURG (WUR from Jodah, G from Faeburrow Elder) or WUBRG from Jodah's color identity?
Many thanks in advance and I hope this is the right forum for these questions.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #2
Caerwyn has the right of it.
To expand: Jodah has a static ability that enables his controller to cast spells with an Alternative Cost. The following are the relevant rules on Alternative Costs:
118.9. Some spells have alternative costs. An alternative cost is a cost listed in a spell’s text, or applied to it from another effect, that its controller may pay rather than paying the spell’s mana cost. Alternative costs are usually phrased, “You may [action] rather than pay [this object’s] mana cost,” or “You may cast [this object] without paying its mana cost.” Note that some alternative costs are listed in keywords; see rule 702.
118.9a Only one alternative cost can be applied to any one spell as it’s being cast. The controller of the spell announces their intentions to pay that cost as described in rule 601.2b.
118.9b Alternative costs are generally optional. An effect that allows you to cast a spell may require a certain alternative cost to be paid.
118.9c An alternative cost doesn’t change a spell’s mana cost, only what its controller has to pay to cast it. Spells and abilities that ask for that spell’s mana cost still see the original value.
118.9d If an alternative cost is being paid to cast a spell, any additional costs, cost increases, and cost reductions that affect that spell are applied to that alternative cost. (See rule 601.2f.)
Similar examples to Jodah's effect can be seen in cards like Bringer of the Black Dawn, which is distinctly black, and only black, but has WUBRG Color Identity, and can be cast for an alternate cost. Color and Color Identity are two different but related things:
105.2. An object can be one or more of the five colors, or it can be no color at all. An object is the color or colors of the mana symbols in its mana cost, regardless of the color of its frame. An object’s color or colors may also be defined by a color indicator or a characteristic-defining ability. See rule 202.2.
903.4. The Commander variant uses color identity to determine what cards can be in a deck with a certain commander. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities (see rule 604.3) or color indicator (see rule 204).
December 1, 2022 8:47 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #3
Rhonir: Answers to your question have been up for a while. Since there don't seem to be any follow-ups or corrections to be made, I marked one of them as the "Accepted answer" so this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. In the future you can take care of this yourself using the "Mark as Answer" button on the response that you feel best answers your question.
Caerwyn says... Accepted answer #1
In the future, please use the Rules Q&A section of the site if you have questions about rules, cards or card interactions. That section has some added functionalities, like the ability to "mark as answer" a question and indicate you had your question resolved. I went ahead and moved it for you.
Moving on to your questions:
Question 1: You are incorrect in your understanding. Jodah provides an alternative cost for a spell, but does not change the mana cost of the spell, nor does it change the colour of a spell. A Phyrexian Hulk cast with Jodah's ability will still have a mana cost of 6 and it will still be a colorless spell.
As such, you cannot use Obsidian Obelisk's "mana of any color" ability to cast non-multicoloured cards with Jodah and you will not receive triggers on cards like Mana Cannons and Widespread Thieving.
Question 2: Faeburrow Elder only looks at color, not color identity (it does not specifically say "color identity" akin to Command Tower). As such, with only those two permanents there would not be any Black mana added.
November 28, 2022 9:55 a.m.