Is Anyone Else Annoyed that Jace and Vraska Survived?
Lore forum
Posted on April 9, 2024, 8:50 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I am not yet current with the story of Outlaws of Thunder Junction, but I know that Jace and Vraska have returned, and apparently have been cured of their phyresis with no psychological trauma, at all, which really annoys me, because this means that nearly all of the planeswalkers who were completed have been cured (with only Tamiyo confirmed as having died), so I feel that there were little consequences from Phyrexia's invasion of the multiverse, apart from the opening of the Omenpaths and many planeswalkers losing their sparks. This is very similar to when Elspeth returned from the underworld in Theros with no psychological trauma, either; for her, death was essentially a vacation.
This is very frustrating, since it seems as if the writers dislike the idea of there being permanent consequences for anything that occurs or otherwise changing the status quo, which severely undermines Phyrexia's status as one of the greatest threats in the multiverse.
What does everyone else say about this? Are you disappointed that Jace and Vraska have returned?
DemonDragonJ says... #3
wallisface, I shall definitely read the story, but I mainly can do so only on weekends, as that is when I have time to do so; I used to read them at work, but the company at which I work started blocking access to certain websites some time ago, including WotC's website and Scryfall, which is very weird, considering that they do not block access to Live Nation or Loudwire, so the weekends are my only time to read the stories.
April 9, 2024 9:54 p.m.
wallisface says... #4
DemonDragonJ yeah no worries - I just believe your opinion might be quite different after catching up on the whole story - particularly the 2 aftermath chapters, as that covers a lot of why Jace/Vraska are here at all. Of course, you might still dislike where the overall story is at - but we won’t know that until you’re up to date.
I think hating on the story without knowing the story isn’t productive. And it makes it hard for anyone to discuss the nuances of what’s happening and what’s good/bad.
April 9, 2024 10:11 p.m.
sergiodelrio says... #5
DemonDragonJ I'm sure they blocked it just for you xD
April 10, 2024 10:12 a.m.
FormOverFunction says... #6
This is the problem with having, for lack of a better term, serious long-term characters in magic. Trying to have these planeswalkers stay in the spotlight severely limits plots and whatnot. The spotlight is, in my opinion, better saved for legendary creatures that can just come and go with the sets. Maybe X-Files is a better way to describe it: when it was (basically) just Mulder and Sculley dealing with the monster of the week, the show was WIDE open. As soon as they dug into the weird giant story arc... it got less and less enjoyable for me. In this game, Magic: the Gathering, WE are Mulder and Sculley. WE are encountering strange new creatures and anomalies. As soon as you add five new permanent characters to keep track of... bleh...
April 10, 2024 11:09 a.m.
I'm mad all the humanoids seem fine while the truly cool characters like Etali are just junked because they were a beast and did't have opposable thumbs.
They could at least be consistent and have no consequences for all seeing as they don't understand how
April 10, 2024 12:34 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #8
My understanding, and bare in mind this is from watching YouTube review videos on the stories so I'm missing details here, is that any Planeswalker who fell to Phyresis and was Compleated had lost their spark.
They died, especially when Norn fell.
But Teferi went back in time and restored the fallen Planeswalkers and brought them from their past lives to their futures, which is the current present.
This is why we have some Planeswalkers who still have their sparks, like Oko (who survived) and some who are now just legendary creatures (like Vraska).
This put WOTC in a bit of a pickle because now we have Planeswalkers who can't planeswalk. So what do you do?
Omenpaths.
Now everybody is a Planeswalker, so now nobody is special.
April 10, 2024 6:15 p.m.
wallisface says... #9
TypicalTimmy that’s not at all the series-of-events i’ve gotten from reading the stories, though admittedly i’ve only recently read this Thunder Junction story, and the All-Will-Be-One & March-of-the Machine arcs - so if extra story happened in MKM, Eldraine, or Ixalan i may have missed it.
I’ve not heard anything around Teferi having any part in anything like what you’re suggesting.
April 10, 2024 6:39 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #10
"Now everybody is a Planeswalker, so now nobody is special."
In some of these adjacent discussions, I keep linking back to the upcoming "Death Race" set because I think its concept addresses something that current Omenpath stories haven't quite yet - Distance and time of travel. If an entire set is being based on the premise of a race across 3 planes, then that also sets up the premise that all Non-Planeswalkers have to travel long distances to get to and from the Omenpaths.
Sure, the Omenpaths now exist as a plot vehicle for all Non-Walkers, but there still is the implied off-screen distance and time that hasn't been yet addressed in-lore (as far as I know). What Planeswalkers can do instantaneously might take everyone else hours, days, maybe longer?
What seems to be an instantaneous Sparked Walkers like Jace could be an arduous journey for everyone else.
Idk, I know the Thunder Junction lore has received a fairly mixed reception for a variety of reasons, but I think the concept of inter-planar migration that it introduced (and races) to be a fun one that I hope gets expanded upon more in the Lore.
April 10, 2024 6:42 p.m.
FormOverFunction Completely agree on the X-files, and I think just in general that pop fiction really has a fear of doing an anthology or an atmosphere story. For the most part, writers and producers try so hard to cling to the characters that people like, and they end up forcing stories that really drive home the worst parts of those characters.
Like, I think Scully is great. She's by the book, wry funny, but then does wildly reckless things sometimes. She's a very well rounded and intelligent character, but at the same time, she has to keep saying "I don't believe" even after she has been the center of an alien storyline, just because they deemed both her character story and how she fits in the formula episodes uncuttable. They're seeing it as, this is how she has to be, how do we explain it? Rather than, this is how she is, what would she do?
Just my opinion, but I do think that going too far trying to please the reader eventually kills it for the reader.
When wizards used to do more atmospheric storytelling it did a great job of catering to different players. There was story for players who wanted to read it, there was cards that could fit different themes for casual and commander decks, there was flavor for just flavor sake, and best of all there was a ton more room for a player just to fill in the gaps in their mind. But since they moved towards more character based storylines, it feels like they want one kind of player with one kind of interest in the story, and then atmosphere comes from the atmosphere of some universes beyond nonsense.
April 10, 2024 10:10 p.m.
RicketyEng says... #12
To address the original question, I am very happy that Jace and Vraska have survived. I was holding onto that hope when their bodies were not recovered at the end of March of the Machine. The two aftermath stories were absolutely beautiful as Alison Luhrs took us back to the Jace and Vraska of Ixalan.
There is absolutely some deep trauma Jace and Vraska are experiencing. They both just barely survived the Phyrexian invasions (how is a huge spoiler and very heartwarming). It came as a huge shock when they discovered that Vraska has lost her spark. The entire purpose of the Thunder Junction heist was to further their goals to move on with their lives. They want to have a family and now they can (which is a very personal relatability for my wife and I). Loot is also clearly a key part of whatever phoenix-style plan they have for correcting the multiverse.
April 11, 2024 12:34 p.m.
I'm indifferent to the 2. I have yet to see a character that really intrigues me yet when it comes to planeswalkers. I might learn to like Oko though, because I like the idea of a mercurial whim-type planeswalker
Regarding non-character focused story, it would be a great time to lay down some concrete rules for the mtg universe. I think it would be great if only planeswalkers could actually SEE them and fae-folk could see shortcuts. Lay some good ground rules and make your characters unique by showing how they interact with them
April 11, 2024 9:31 p.m.
TheoryCrafter says... #14
As happy as I am about Jace and Vraska all the compleated Planeswalkers should have died. It completely negated the tragedy that was losing all those heroes. Its like with Marvel and DC. If someone dies the fans just shrug their shoulders and wait for the next appearance.
DemonDragonJ, Lukka is also confirmed dead and Tibalt is implied.
TypicalTimmy, Teferi didn't restore the Planeswalkers. While he did help Melira restore Ajani(who still has his spark) and Nissa with time magic, the other compleated Planeswalkers who survived were cured by the angels of New Capenna.
April 11, 2024 11:02 p.m.
I should say walkers should be able to see omenpath otherwise typical mortals should only be able to blunder into them. Then you could have some truly neat specialization of powers. Like a planeswalker that efficiently makes soldier tokens actually has the ability impart omensight onto their soldier friends and have the ability to summon them there. Maybe another walker locates and synchronizes with paths and this reflects in a scry ability.
And yes, more time and distance, travels and such would be a great way to flesh out further world building, instead of focusing on 2 planeswalkers ongoing romance.
I dislike Vraska and MtG Gorgons in general because they are a big mythology-miss IMO. Taking creative liberty is fine I just think with the Gorgon it is a bit too much. Jace, I have actually been Ok with, boy though, that character started as such a dbag, and yeah, a good part of that was the company trying to posterize him with what they thought the average MtG player wanted. And the more they did that, the more people would actually be like; count me out! I think they have done a better job at no longer characterizing players to planes walkers and doing it in such a tonedeaf way.
April 12, 2024 11:11 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #16
TheoryCrafter, yes, I forgot about them, which shows how inconsequential they were to the overall story.
April 13, 2024 5:02 p.m.
And maybe it's just me, but I do kind of wish they shuffled up the cast of characters a bit more. Like, I'm cool with Jace and Vraska stories, but what about characters that have been huge in magic lore of the past like Serra, Titania and Gaea, the Weatherlight crew minus Karn, the Sliver Queen, Baron Sengir, Radiant, or even something more modern like Questing Beast. I'd love to see a day in the life of the Questing Beast story : )
I mean, some probably can't come back due to where their stories ended, but I feel like there is a lot of characters that got left strewn about in continuity while the Gatewatch has to have each character wear a hundred hats, figuratively (well, kinda)
April 14, 2024 2:37 p.m.
TheoryCrafter says... #18
Niko9 Baron Sengir is definitely a character I'd love to see become a big bad with the Omenpaths in place.
wallisface says... #2
I would suggest finishing the story, as well as the 2 “aftermath” chapters from the set, and see if that changes your view.
At the moment you’re getting annoyed about something without having a full understanding of what’s currently going on.
April 9, 2024 9:40 p.m.