Our First Battle Card Has Been Released
General forum
Posted on March 28, 2023, 1:50 p.m. by TypicalTimmy
Seems like if I were to cast it, it enters the battlefield under an opponents control.
Then I have to kill it?
And when I do, it transforms into a creature under my control, except I have to cast that creature half - meaning it can be countered?
The hell is this nonsense?
Daveslab2022 says... #3
So the flavor here is that you cast the card and give it to an opponent to defend. So they are defending the invasion of zendikar, and you are attempting to defeat it. Meaning you are on the Zendikari side. Which is why you get a cool Zendikari avatar after defeating it, I guess?
March 28, 2023 2:58 p.m.
Everyone has so many questions, myself included! I am waiting for more details before I make any judgements. If the three is a life total like planeswalkers, that means we could reliably cast it, then attack it, "kill" it, potentially flipping it over that same turn. If this is how it works, my guess is that the battle cards will be pretty tame to start. I don't like the idea of slowing the game down, so I think they avoided that pretty well. You don't have to attack it unless you want the benefit of the flipped card
March 28, 2023 3:01 p.m.
Daveslab2022 So the Phyrexian invaders are the ones protecting, and the Zendikari defenders are the ones attacking the protectors. Got it.
March 28, 2023 3:45 p.m.
wallisface says... #6
The mechanic feels really “win more” to me.
If you can’t attack through to flip the card then its not really netting you any value.
If you can attack through to flip it, why aren’t you just attacking your opponent and trying to end the game. I don’t think the flipside is necessarily speeding up your clock so you’re probably just buying your opponent an extra turn.
We may see more pushed versions of the card at rare/mythic that change my mind - but imo so far the mechanic feels pretty unplayable.
March 28, 2023 4:01 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #7
Granted this one is an uncommon, but paying 4 mana for an opponent to get 2 lands that I have to then kill for a 4/4 seems pretty try-hard.
Lot of work, for a 4/4.
March 28, 2023 4:08 p.m.
TypicalTimmy This is another point that will come with more details, but my interpretation is that the opponent doesn't gain control of it when it enters, they just have to defend it. If you cast it, you still get the lands.
Unless I'm misinterpreting your comment.
March 28, 2023 4:18 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #9
I assumed it was one of those "enters the battlefield under X's control" deals.
So when it ETBs, it ETBs under an opponent of your choice. Ergo, their ETB trigger.
But maybe it's different now.
March 28, 2023 4:23 p.m.
wallisface says... #10
TypicalTimmy text as written, and common sense of the card being remotely playable, dictate you’d get the lands.
The caster still controls the battle, as they’ll need to, to be able to cast the flip-side, as per text-written (if the opponent controlled it they’d also be getting the 4/4)
March 28, 2023 4:25 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #11
Per the rules, it has to be controlled by an opponent.
If I cast it, I am not able to attack it if it is my own permanent.
Whomever is "defending" it must be in control of it, so that I may attack into it and deal the 3 damage to overtake it. Then I can cast it (for free) as the 4/4 Elemental.
If it ETB under my control, I can not declare attackers against my own permanents.
Ergo, when it ETB the controller tutors the lands. Hence, my opponent.
March 28, 2023 4:36 p.m.
wallisface says... #12
TypicalTimmy per the text you are only choosing an opponent to protect it, not control it.
The card explicitly states that you’re able to attack it (despite controlling it).
The fact it says “you and others cam attack it” means that you’re still controlling it- if the opponent controlled it, they’d be the “you” in that text and be able to attack it (which would make no sense).
Furthermore, if your opponent controlled it, they’d get the 4/4 as worded.
100% the caster controls the card. An opponent is only nominated to “defend it”
March 28, 2023 4:44 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #13
"Then cast it transformed" is the most bizarre part, to me.
Seems like a mechanic that'll be neat in limited and completely unplayable in constructed, unless they REALLY push some... and, it is WotC, so...
March 28, 2023 4:52 p.m.
I'm going to be pedantic and rules-lawyer-y here, but I believe it's the correct interpretation. Rule 508, which goes though the Declaring Attackers processors, describes the mechanics of attacking, specifically, planeswalkers.
508.1b: "If the defending player controls any planeswalkers, or the game allows the active player to attack multiple other players, the active player announces which player or planeswalker each of the chosen creatures is attacking."
There's no official word on whether or not you can attack other permanent types you control, since it's never come up before, and I expect that this rule will get a rewrite or subrule.
March 28, 2023 5:17 p.m.
wallisface says... #15
legendofa a whole bunch of existing rules are going to have to be rewritten to accomodate battles. I assume we’ll see updates to all of those rules as the mechanic gets officially showcased
March 28, 2023 5:26 p.m.
My fear is WotC will try so hard to balance battles that they will be nigh unplayable or one will be so powerful WotC will have to tame every future one they may print to the point where no other is playable.
On the flip side though, we've come a long way from Venser, the Sojourner (cough Wrenn and Six cough), so maybe Battles will get better as time goes on and WotC figures out how they want to explore it given initial play.
March 28, 2023 6:06 p.m.
In the interest of keeping down on redundant threads, please use this prior-existing thread for discussion of of the new card type.
legendofa says... #2
I'm cautiously, um, confused. It looks interesting, but still too many details I don't understand. It looks like it holds together, though. I have to admit, I wasn't expecting a delayed creature. The easy assumption is that the 3 relates to attacking and defeating it.
What's the flavor? By casting it, am I on the Zendikar side or the Phyrexian side?
March 28, 2023 2:41 p.m.