Apparently, the fabled Lost City of Atlantis has been discovered
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on Dec. 21, 2022, 9:26 a.m. by TypicalTimmy
The video essay of the scientific breakdown of where it is believed to have been located.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #3
I saw that yesterday. I can't wait until a full-on archeological investigation in the area happens..
plakjekaas: The guy is wording it that way because people within the archeological establishment are EXTREMELY resistant to absolutely ANYTHING that has the potential to shake-up established human history as we know it. The same kind of people who just hand-wave away things like the obvious signs of extreme erosion damage surrounding the Egyption Sphinx..
December 21, 2022 11:46 a.m.
As a general rule, if a story addresses a purported novel discovery related to an ancient mystery everyone knows about, if it held any water it would be reported by the BBC, Post, or other similar news site. It would not be a video essay by some dude who posts videos with clickbait headlines, uses “I believe in conspiratorial nonsense” buzzwords in his profile, and has no relevant degree to the topic being addressed. It also would not be someone trying to pass off a discredited years-old theory as if it were something new.
And it certainly wouldn’t be from someone who thinks Plato, a guy famous for making up allegories and mocking people, was being serious with a clearly allegorical story. Next I’m sure he’ll try saying they found the cave where folks were chained up for decades and forced to watch shadow puppets.
December 21, 2022 11:49 a.m.
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December 21, 2022 11:52 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #6
Metroid_Hybrid I doubt that "people within the archaeological establishment" are the target audience for this video though.
December 21, 2022 1:06 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #7
Metroid_Hybrid, that's true with many fields of study, not just archeology. I recall the uproar in paleontology when a doctor (I forget his name, ironically) speculated that we have only discovered 1/3rd the number of dinosaur and related species, because he dared to pose the question: "Where are all of the juveniles?"
His theory is that, as with many animals and especially birds, perhaps the fossils they have been discovering are of the same species, but in different stages of it's life. Large predatory birds, for example, change their skull shape quite dramatically as they grow. And several species of reptiles will begin life with many teeth, and lose them over time as larger teeth grow in.
His studies suggested that many of the species, as much as 60%, are just different ages of the same species. For this theory to be true, intermediate fossils would have to be uncovered... To which they were.
But, it takes almost as long to change a study as it does to practice it.
December 21, 2022 1:07 p.m.
Dead_Blue_ says... #8
Didn’t watch the video but have heard the Eye of Sahara theories before. To me it seems likely
December 21, 2022 1:16 p.m.
Here is the reality for folks who think any Atlantis theory, including this one, seems likely:
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The only historical source for Atlantis existing is Plato. There exists no other evidence - no independent fragments of text, no historical markings, no pieces of pottery, no nothing… except those that directly reference Plato as the source.
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Plato made up allegories all the time - that was kind of his thing. In his dialogues, Plato’s version of Socrates makes arguments by creating fictional cities, items, and locations and using them to draw analogies on why whoever he is talking to was wrong.
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Aristotle, a direct student of Plato who would have learned from the man himself said that Plato made up the story of Atlantis.
It is a fun story, a great myth, and a wonderful source of literary inspiration. But, the fact remains that every single theory of “this might be Atlantis” is infinitely less plausible than “Plato was just being Plato, as evidenced by the direct testimony of someone who both personally knew Plato.” Sometimes History has mysteries - sometimes it is just folks really wanting to find reality in the words of History’s most famous troll.
December 21, 2022 1:31 p.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #11
Caerwyn: The only source (that I am aware of) of the lost city of Troy came from the Illiad & Odyssey, which were explicit works of fiction, but was eventually discovered in the 19th century after someone decided to take the clues seriously.
The recent-ish discovery of the ruins at Göbekli Tepe has seriously complicated the seemly linear chronology of human development.
The Egyption Sphinx shows clear signs of water erosion characteristic of heavy, prolong amounts of rain. The type of rain the area hasn't seen in 11,000~13,000 years; you know, the end of the last Ice Age— aka the Younger-Dryas period.
Then there are examples such as what TypicalTimmy brought up concerning dinosaurs.
There is also the case of Ignaz Semmelweis. He has been generally accepted as the first person to suggest that doctors should regularly wash their hands. Long-story-short: he died in an insane asylum.
Galileo was prosecuted as a heretic for refuting the Gaia-centric view of the universe.
These are all examples off the top of my head, but there are many more...
In conclusion... People who challenge the status-quo are almost always demonized in one way or another. Of course this doesn't mean that every radical idea is true— far from it. But in the case of this particular theory presented in the OP: a single, serious archeological expedition would permentantly clear up everything now wouldn't it?
December 21, 2022 8:08 p.m.
Metroid_Hybrid - Except there is a clear difference between Homer and Plato and thus between the Trojan War and Atlantis. Homer’s work comes from a long-standing oral tradition - one which very likely predated Homer himself even if Homer is the oldest surviving work. Given the spread of the Epic Cycle, there was sufficient evidence to suggest it might have been real, giving rise to a debate which lasted for thousands of years.
That is also very different from “Guy who was known for making up anecdotes who made something up that only gained widespread popularity in light of what he said.” And, again, we have a pretty darn reliable primary source—one of the greatest thinkers in history—who said “yeah, I know Plato made it up - I was there.”
This is not a case where more data is going to prove something wrong - though you can bet people will look for any possible coincidence to try and say “I found Atlantis.” This is a case where people are desperately trying to find data because they would rather believe in a myth than take the word of Aristotle.
December 21, 2022 8:22 p.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #13
Caerwyn: You seemed to conspicuously ignore everything else stated, especially the very last sentence of my last post...
But that aside, I've been needing for an excuse to read some Aristotle. What is the source where Aristotle said that Plato's specific claim about Altantis was made up?
December 21, 2022 8:49 p.m.
I am going to do something that is rare on the internet--issue a slight repudiation of my above. After a bunch of digging for the past couple of hours, the quote, attributed to Aristotle for the past couple hundred years, is "the man who created it made it disappear"--i.e. the person who made it up is the same person who sank it in the story.
However, though this quote appears in plenty of academic writings on Plato, there does not seem to be any direct quote--it seemingly may be tracible to the 16th century, but the trail goes cold there. It seems to be one of those things that some guy a long time ago misremembered, made up, or otherwise an error, but which still appears in academic writings cited by experts on classicism. Speaking as someone who has an undergrad degree in classical history and in philosophy (with a focus on classical philosophy), it both horrifies me that an archaic error persists in academia today and fascinates me as a valid lesson in terms of how citations can compound on other citations to make potential apocrypha reality.
However, even in the absence of the Aristotle quote, Plato himself was probably history's most famous troll, and many of his dialogues are filled with made up allegorical stories trying to prove various points. Had there been another source--pretty much any other source--other than Plato as the originator, I think there would be a stronger argument for Atlantis' existence. But saying "Well, it could be real, Plato did talk about it" is sort of like people three thousand years from now debating the existence of Discworld because the great philosopher Terry Pratchett mentioned it in some of his surviving writings.
December 21, 2022 9:12 p.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #15
Very interesting indeed Caerwyn...
I may also add that throughout my life I have treated the general subject of Altantis with much the same kind of attitude as yourself. However, the hypothesis presented by the creator of the video mentioned above, is quite literally the first & only one I have ever seen that didn't immediately set off my own BS-detector. Would you humor us by giving the video a look? The guy cites a lot more than just Plato..
But back to the subject of Aristotle. Since you've been through a formalized study of the subject, could you recommend 1~3 books/source material on Aristotelian philosophy? There are dozens, if not hundreds of books on the subject, and I am not one to just randomly buy various books, hoping for the best. I am no genius, but can readily digest denser subject matter than the average bear. However I do not know any Greek or Latin. For example, I have bought & read several volumes of the 'Collected Works of C.G. Jung' in my free time, and the only real hiccups that would arise were when he would throw in bits of Greek & Latin, half the time without any translation. I can look up the Latin words & phrases on my phone, but Greek... that is a different story altogether.
plakjekaas says... #2
It's a compelling theory that I did hear before, but his rhetoric is kind of annoying to listen to.
"As we all know..." "As anyone with eyes can see..." is trying to ridicule the idea of doubting the upcoming information, yet as the information comes it's still about possibilities and theories. It's bad style.
Also, arguing that the measurements of the city "must have been lost in translation" while at the same time the name "must have been reused as people tend to do" felt a lot like he needed to try and fit the evidence to the theory '^^
It feels like the video is made to convince me of the theory, rather than to report the scientific evidence supporting it, which rubs me the wrong way for a bit, I suppose. Doesn't mean the information is necessarily wrong though.
December 21, 2022 10:16 a.m.