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I mean if you look at it that way I guess Kess too is just a placeholder commander then. Next year WotC might print a 2 mana grixis commander that gives all your spells storm. The probability of Jeleva hitting a tutor, a wheel or something other good is really high in a competitive table with other spellslinger decks. If Jeleva instead read "When ~ attacks, search your library for a card and put that card into your hand. Then shuffle your library" (which she commonly enough pretty much says) would she still be placeholder?
August 12, 2017 12:54 p.m.
All commanders are placeholder commanders until WotC prints a 1 generic mana 1/1 with "when ~ enters the battlefield you win the game". Jeleva is an amazing storm commander and even if Kess ends up being better more often Jeleva still isn't more of a placeholder commander than Zur, Tazri or Yidris. I'm seriously not getting where all of you are coming from with this placeholder meme.
August 12, 2017 12:15 p.m.
My point is that Kess becomes live later than Jeleva does. At some point Kess becomes good but if the play is turn 3 or 4 commander Jeleva is a lot stronger. Turn 3 commander into not having anything good in your bin isn't really a "worst case scenario" since grixis quite often has to pretend to be the control player or be the "second one to go off", so keeping a hand of lands, mediocre ramp and a couple of counters is correct, especially against decks that goldfish faster than you. A hand of 3 lands, Swan Song, Counterspell, Talisman of Dominance and a Candelabra is imo a keep against not everything but a lot of stuff, since you have good interaction and enough land drops to go late game if you don't draw or your commander doesn't get you anything good. If you don't need to spend Song early your commander comes down turn 4 with Song up and that really hasn't left any time for you to fuel your graveyard while Jeleva just comes and exiles 16 cards and plays the offensive role while playing defense. Yeah yeah this hand fully supports my point of view but in my experience hands and scenarios like that happen a lot and this is what I mean with Jeleva being more live early game.
Also, my Jeleva list plays a pathetic 6 cantrips and it reasonably could add 1, maybe 2 cantrips if I really wanted more and that'd mean I'd be playing such gems as Sleight of Hand, Opt and Serum Visions. Modern storm gets to play 8 and Legacy ANT plays 12+, so you can't really rely on cantrips scupting your hand. Maybe you could jam Thought Scour and Mental Note in Kess without feeling terrible, but those cards are dead in games where you end up not relying on your commander which is also the scenario a decent amount of the time.
August 12, 2017 noon
Kess requires you to actually draw the big payout spell in order to flashback it, if you keep a hand of only vintage rocks you're up shits creek while Jeleva gets to be in a great position if that happens. Flashbacking things like wheels, Yawgwins and Ad Nauseams only becomes relevant mid to lategame while getting Jeleva to stick turn 2 or 3 is amazing as long as your opponents are playing decks with good Jeleva hits.
Both have their merits and there are metas and games where Kess is better, but especially in storm mirrors "mini yawgwins" slower than seeing 16 cards and casting one for free.
Also, Jeleva being a placeholder commander is a joke and a meme, anyone who unironically believes that should try resolving her.
August 12, 2017 10:45 a.m.
Oh hey I got batsignaled and I'm here to tell you that all of you are terrible at Grixis Storm and MtG in general. Calling Jeleva a placeholder commander is just straight up incorrect. Seeing 16 cards and getting to cast one of them for free is incredible value, and depending on the matchups Jeleva wins games by herself. Jeleva is card advantage early game and wins storm mirrors which is super relevant while Kess is more of a grindy card that becomes online lategame. In fast combo matchups Jelva will continue to be the queen of storm, but if you often find yourself playing in 3 player games or against decks with no good Jeleva hits (Yisan, Selvala, some versions of Hulk, Tana-Tymna or other bear decks) Kess is the better one.
It's meta dependant, but people who call Kess straight up better have probably never resolved Jeleva in their life. If you don't care about other possibly perceiving you as a sleazy metagaming and rules lawyering cunt the correct play is to keep both in your deckbox, know your meta and choose your commander accordingly. Playing against "the stax guy"? Play Kess. Coast is clear no guy known to play bear decks in sight? Keep jamming Jelebae.
August 12, 2017 6:25 a.m.
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