ibstudent2200 Deckspert

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If you need ways to win once you go infinite, I recommend Shivan Gorge. It doesn't cost you a nonland slot, and there is at least one way to deal infinite damage using cards in your list and Gorge. You don't run Ruination, so you aren't really losing much by adding another nonbasic.

Personally, I prefer Starstorm to Comet Storm for instants, but if you need a win condition, Comet Storm technically works.

I wasn't saying that you cut Darksteel Forge, Nevinyrral's Disk, or Mycosynth Lattice. I was just pointing out that your explanations for why you included Disk and Lattice don't emphasize that the core combo is Forge + Disk, and that adding Lattice just lets you blow up lands.

Your argument about having enough tutoring is...sketchy. You have 4 tutors in deck, one of which is Kuldotha Forgemaster. It depends on the deck, but Forgemaster is often best categorized as part of an N-card combo rather than a tutor, where N is the number of other artifacts of any sort you need to control when you untap with Forgemaster in order to immediately go infinite (I think N = 6 is sufficient to find Forge + Disk for your list, and N = 7 finds an arbitrary number of artifacts if you add Nim Deathmantle). The card-drawing component of your argument is more difficult to compute, though you definitely have enough card draw to make my traditional numbers* inapplicable to your deck, but the threshold for seeing enough cards to consistently assemble a 3-card combo is really high.

I'd also contest your claim that Lattice is an essential component of any Daretti deck. My experience with Daretti has been that you're rarely short on artifacts to sacrifice, and color fixing is rarely an issue in a mono-color deck, so Mycosynth Lattice's main purpose is for combos. The main cards that combo with lattice include:

  • Forge: Avacyn, Angel of Hope is good, even when it's a 2-card combo.
  • Forge + Disk: this combo is already backbreaking even without Lattice.
  • Karn, Silver Golem: this combo is gross. It's less mana-efficient than something like Decree of Annihilation or Boom/Bust, but being one-sided and repeatable counts for a lot.
  • Clock of Omens / Unwinding Clock: Given that you have some big activated ability payoffs, these are definitely strong.
  • Voltaic Key/Clock of Omens/Unwinding Clock + Goblin Welder: These cards just happen to work together extremely well.
  • Vandalblast: this is gross, and you already want Vandalblast in your deck.
  • Quicksmith Genius: This is a card that always fails to make the cut for me (I skip from 2 mana to 4 mana about 70%-80% of the time in my Daretti list, which places 3-drops in a weird spot in my curve), so I don't have a good sense for whether triggering the Genius whenever you play a land is very good.
  • Inventors' Fair: If Lattice onboard makes a difference in whether you can take advantage of Inventors' Fair, something has gone horribly awry.

So by my count, you have about 6 cards that work well with Lattice, and 2 that work against it (All Is Dust does literally nothing with Lattice onboard). Given that you have incidental combos like Goblin Welder+untapper shenanigans, I think it's best to view Lattice as a card that combos with 6 cards in your deck, but does very little on its own. Whether that is above or below your threshold for usefulness is up to you.

*My traditional numbers: If Card A does nothing on its own but combos with other cards, you want at least 10 tutors and/or synergistic cards for Card A to be consistently useful.

August 15, 2017 3:23 p.m.

I would argue that Darksteel Forge + Nevinyrral's Disk is a reason to run the Disk, while Mycosynth Lattice + Disk is a combo you want to avoid unless you already have the Forge in play.

Past in Flames seems a little strange when you only have about 7 spells you would ever want to cast with it (Chaos Warp, All Is Dust, Wheel of Fortune, Blasphemous Act, Trash for Treasure, Gamble, and Scrap Mastery), and some of those are a little too expensive when you need to cast them on the same turn as Past in Flames. Personally, I'd rather play Codex Shredder and pay 1-2 more mana in exchange for being able to cast the card at a later time (and I'm not a fan of running Codex Shredder). Otherwise, Recoup covers everything but Chaos Warp and Comet Storm (which I would rarely want to cast off of Past in Flames).

August 14, 2017 10:23 a.m.

Since you're running Crucible of Worlds, running fetchlands (for the purpose of TappedOut's suggestion feature: Wooded Foothills, Bloodstained Mire, Scalding Tarn, Arid Mesa) is reasonable. They work with Sensei's Divining Top and Rings of Brighthearth, too.

Millikin seems reasonable to me, since a T3 Daretti is leagues better than a T4 Daretti.

I assume that Phyrexian Revoker and Pithing Needle are included to deal with specific combo decks (and decks like Azami).

Bomat Courier is actually terrible. If you didn't need to discard your hand to use its activated ability, or if you didn't need to attack to exile a card under it, it might be fine. However, the combination means that this card just isn't going to do much.

Pilgrim's Eye feels pretty weak, since it doesn't ramp you and costing 3 is awkward. However, I will admit that I'm biased in this area. My Daretti list plays a lot of cheap mana rocks in order to pull off a T3 Daretti about 70-80% of the time, so I play 3-drops on curve infrequently.

Fiery Temper seems kind of sketchy to me. Yes, you can use Daretti's +2 to deal 3 damage to something, but that's pretty low impact.

I'm more than a little skeptical about Hope of Ghirapur. What exactly do you expect to accomplish with this card?

Contagion Clasp is a card I've considered, but never actually tried. How does it perform for you?

If you're going to play a card as a win condition once you go infinite, I recommend Shivan Gorge. If you have Staff of Domination + Metalworker, you can draw your deck. From there, you can cast Mycosynth Lattice, Rings of Brighthearth, and Voltaic Key, then play Shivan Gorge and use Voltaic Key + Rings of Brighthearth to repeatedly untap mountains and Shivan Gorge and ping opponents to death. Is this combo practical? Not in the slightest. However, it means you don't need to waste a card slot on a win condition. As a side note, you can produce an arbitrarily large number of Wurm tokens with your current list.

August 3, 2017 3:35 p.m.

Chandra, Flamecaller gives you either a boardwipe or a stream of card advantage. If you have 2 cards in hand on average, Flamecaller's 0 is better than Ablaze's -2. As an extreme corner case, Flamecaller allows you to win the game by resolving Decree of Annihilation, since the +1 ability deals a lot of damage.

Chandra Ablaze gives you spot removal at the cost of card disadvantage (unless you discard Squee, Goblin Nabob or Avacyn's Judgment). It's worth noting that you need to discard red cards in order to deal damage with Ablaze's +1, and those are the cards that you generally don't want to discard in this deck. Ablaze's -2 is better than Flamecaller's 0 if you average less than 2 cards in hand by the time you cast a 6-mana planeswalker, and the ability can provide card disadvantage to your opponents at the cost of feeding their graveyard (I'm not familar with the competitive EDH scene, but there's enough graveyard shenanigans in my local playgroup and I'm hesitant to give them fodder).

Chandra, Torch of Defiance, unlike the other 'walkers, can come down fairly early. It provides infrequent spot removal and can act as an Outpost Siege or provide additional mana. Each of these abilities is useful, but defending it long enough to get a good amount of value is difficult.

Did I miss anything in these summaries?

August 1, 2017 7 p.m.

I didn't notice it before, but Clock of Omens might be a better choice than Unwinding Clock. My experience has been that there are certain activated abilities that you want to spam as much as possible (artifacts that tap for 3+ mana, The Chain Veil, etc), but you end up with plenty of artifacts that don't do anything with Unwinding Clock. It also shuts off Static Orb and Winter Orb during an opponent's end step.

To break down Paradox Engine's utility in this deck, here's the list of cards that it aids:

Mana rocks (1-mana only): Mox Diamond, Mox Opal.

Mana rocks (2+ mana): Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Hedron Archive, Grim Monolith, Mana Vault, Basalt Monolith, Thran Dynamo, Metalworker.

Activated abilities: Goblin Charbelcher, The Chain Veil, Prototype Portal, Goblin Welder, Voltaic Key (doesn't work without other listed cards), Sensei's Divining Top (with spells at instant speed).

Based on this list, it looks like Paradox Engine will probably produce a lot of mana, but you aren't going to abuse activated abilities consistently and you don't have enough ways to draw cards to necessarily take advantage of all that mana. If you get Metalworker, Goblin Welder, or The Chain Veil+Mana Vault/Grim Monolith/Basalt Monolith/Thran Dynamo, you'll probably go nuts, but untapping Goblin Charbelcher and Mana Crypt a couple times per turn seems kind of weak for a 3-card combo. It's probably worth testing, but I think you'd want to add Staff of Domination and a couple other payoffs (which I don't think is the best direction for the deck).

August 1, 2017 1:10 p.m.

Rogue's Passage lets Omnath hit without costing you a creature.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting Wood Elves as a card for this list. I don't think it's as good as something like Cultivate/Kodama's Reach/Nissa's Pilgrimage or Skyshroud Claim here. I only mentioned it because it's a format staple (due to the ability to grab dual lands and the prevalence of ETB spam). You can't currently farm ETB's in this list, and the best card to correct that in mono-green is Temur Sabertooth, which goes infinite with 11+ lands if you have the right cards.

As far as fatty replacements, I don't think you really need more of them. However, I think you are extremely light on spot removal like Beast Within, Lignify, Song of the Dryads, or Chord of Calling (assuming you have creatures that can act as spot removal like Brutalizer Exarch).

What are your thoughts on Foe-Razer Regent as a replacement for Nessian Wilds Ravager. You lose a little power on the fight side, but you gain consistency since you don't need to worry about having an opponent who wants a particular creature dead. You also get a minor benefit from running other reasonable cards that force fights (Ulvenwald Tracker, Prey Upon, Arena, Unnatural Aggression, and possibly Setessan Tactics).

August 1, 2017 12:38 p.m.


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ibstudent2200 — 4 years ago


cube chart

ibstudent2200 — 5 years ago


Finished Decks 78
Prototype Decks 34
Drafts 10
Playing since Invasion
Cube Drafts 33
Avg. deck rating 2.00
T/O Rank 351
Helper Rank 130
Favorite formats Commander / EDH
Good Card Suggestions 259
Last activity 5 days
Joined 6 years