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I own three. I used them in a previous iteration of this deck, and found that I limited myself more than I did my opponent. Considering this deck's mana curve, it's not uncommon for me to use multiple spells each turn, so I decided to avoid using them. Otherwise, they're pretty good.
April 24, 2017 9:06 p.m.
You're going to be going up against a lot of artifacts, that I know for sure. Rest in Peace will probably also come up at some point, so you'll want something to contend with that. Disenchant and Extirpate/Surgical Extraction will get rid of any of those threats. People are fond of using Stony Silence to stop artifacts. Those three/four cards would make a nice start to your sideboard. The rest is basically up to whatever you'll find that you're going up against on a regular basis.
April 24, 2017 11:30 a.m.
I just read the rules. Huh, that is interesting (and also kind of amazing). Okay, you wouldn't need Leyline of Anticipation, then. What you COULD use, then, is more instant-speed card draw.
What about Brainstorm? Even if you draw multiple miracles, or have one in your opening hand that you can't cast for the Miracle cost, you can return it to your library so that you CAN use it for the Miracle cost. A bit of a loophole. With this, Serum Visions, and Think Twice, you'd be able to set yourself up relatively well.
Also refer to my other suggestions, especially about that Mountain... that damn Mountain.
April 24, 2017 11:20 a.m.
I agree with VraskaTheCursed about Disrupting Shoal. It's way too expensive no matter what you do. You're better off with simple, CMC 2 counter spells like Mana Leak and Remand. The same goes for Logic Knot, too. Don't even bother.
However, I do agree about preferring Think Twice, as you can draw a card on your opponent's turn. You made a remark, though, about Think Twice activating Miracle on your opponent's turn. That would be nice, if the Miracle cards were instants rather than sorceries. If that's what you want, then I would recommend a couple Leyline of Anticipation be added, so you actually CAN use them on opponent's turns.
Also, why do you have a Mountain in your landbase? You have nothing that requires red mana, and for the same reason Scalding Tarn isn't really necessary either. If you need it for fetching Islands, then that is understandable, but one Mountain? Nah, son.
Let's be real about this. If you're going to use Miracles, go all the way. Temporal Mastery it up in here, at least one.
April 24, 2017 1:47 a.m.
With your mana curve, you will be fine at 21-22 lands. I'd move up to a playset of Polluted Deltas and swap out some Swamps for Islands.
You need more means of getting cards into your graveyard. To that end, something like Contingency Plan would work really well.
April 24, 2017 1:20 a.m.
You have a really steep mana curve going on here, and I worry that you'll have openings hands flooded with CMC 5+ cards and you won't be able to act.
April 23, 2017 11 p.m.
Yeah that's fair, he's pretty expensive. As for the rule on Planeswalkers, that extends to all of your planeswalkers. Since they're all Tezzeret, you can only ever have one on the field regardless of which one it is. Maybe reduce to just a playset of one of them until you can get Agent of Bolas, which would give you room to add other things.
April 23, 2017 6:16 p.m.
I'm not sure if you're aware (you probably are), but because of the "Planeswalker uniqueness rule", you can't have a Master of Metal AND a Schemer out at the same time, because they all have the subtype of Tezzeret. You would have to send one to your graveyard if you had two at once.
Also, if we're talking about Tezzeret Planeswalkers, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas is the way to go. This one is exactly what you're looking for, and that Ultimate will ruin anyone.
You don't need Whir of Invention. Trinket Mage won't put the artifacts directly onto the board, but it tutors really well and gives board presence. Plus your artifacts are CMC 0, so it doesn't really matter.
I would also suggest an alternate win-con aside from Tezzeret, because you have no means of defending your enchantments (cough Assert Authority), and if those get removed then you're left with artifacts that deal little to no damage. Something like Master of Etherium could work here, especially since he'll boost your creatures.
April 23, 2017 4:12 p.m.
I ended up adding them. Figured I can just heal through the hit, so I'm not too worried about it. Thanks XD
April 23, 2017 3:14 p.m.
Just a reminder that this isn't UB (Blue/Black). This is WB (White/Black).
Endless Ranks of the Dead paired with Anointed Procession is also a potent means of getting some serious Zombie action on the field. Amonkhet has been quite generous with us, and hopefully Hour of Devastation will do the same.
April 23, 2017 3:12 p.m.
I've been on and off on Anguished Unmaking. It's definitely the better card, and I can hit more with it, but that 3 damage (on top of whatever damage I've taken and the hit from Sign in Blood) can be an issue. Then again, I can heal it all back with Wayward Servant. I'll continue to think about it.
April 23, 2017 2:35 p.m.
April 21, 2017 12:37 a.m.
The one major issue I see with this deck is that there is no win condition, although you have already acknowledged that. If you don't want creature cards, something like Luminarch Ascension would work. If you're shutting down an opponent each turn (which you should be), then you can attack with smaller creatures each turn and be fine. If that's the case, creatures like Meddling Mage/Reflector Mage and Spell Queller are fun, especially if you play cards like Telepathy early on.
Another thing: Instead of having enchantments that pacify creatures and board wipes, ensure that as few creatures make it to the board in the first place, and exile/Unsummon away the ones who do. The whole point of the deck is to not let the opponent do anything, rather than respond to what they have already done.
I would advise against CMC 3 counterspells. You will want as many CMC 1 or 2 counterspells as you can, so you can counter as often as you can. Remand, Dispel, Spell Pierce, and Spell Snare are good for this very reason. Mana Leak is the basic bitch of counters, if you like that one as well. I really like Rune Snag because it scales with use.
People usually suggest Snapcaster Mage, but it's incredibly expensive. Consider it if you will.
Silence and exile like Detention Sphere would work well here, especially the former. Also, Path to Exile is a better option over Swords to Plowshares. Giving the opponent an extra land to cast with (which you would just counter the spell anyway) is much better of a trade than extra health.
10 Ways to lose a Friend does what you're trying to do very well, although it hasn't been updated in two years. Aside from the atrocious amount of money spent on it (mostly on lands), it can give you some good ideas.
April 20, 2017 5:57 p.m.
Sorry for the double post, but if you need a win-con in creature form, perhaps try something like Consecrated Sphinx? Dear God those are expensive nowadays, even the Mirrodin Besieged version. Just something to consider.
You may also want to have no maximum hand size, since you seem to want a LOT of card draw. Maybe throw in a couple Reliquary Towers?
April 20, 2017 2:41 a.m.
I wouldn't necessarily call this a discard deck, since there isn't a lot of discarding happening on either side of the field. It's more like basic control combined with "they mill when you draw", in which case you should have both more card draw (a la Serum Visions, Remand, Baleful Strix and similar cards, and Chasm Skulker would probably fit really well here) and more basic mill (Glimpse the Unthinkable if you can afford it, but stuff like Pilfered Plans and Tome Scour also work really well).
April 20, 2017 1:57 a.m.
Both of the above commenters are right. If you're not going to have a creature base, then you need to do everything in your power to prevent the opponent from having one as well. To that end, you have little means of doing so, and what you do have has way too high of a cost mana-wise. I would highly recommend that you have lower mana cost cards like Fatal Push, Mana Leak, Extirpate, and Inquisition of Kozilek. Removal, counterspells, and hand attack are three things that you definitely need for a successful B/U control deck, and you have very little of all three. Since you're solely relying on control to win the game, you will also need card draw to pull the cards you want. Serum Visions is the card that people tend to go for, but there are many other options (the same can be said for everything that I have mentioned here).
I notice that you have artifacts dedicated to limiting how much damage is done to you in combat. I ask you, why be damaged at all? Propaganda would help with that immensely. You also have two artifacts that boosts creatures... which you don't have. A better artifact would be something like Isochron Scepter, which you could use to continuously play removal or counter spells.
Finally, I notice that you don't really have a win condition. Skywise Teachings really isn't going to work out too much, especially if you don't have low-CMC cards to allow the cost to make the tokens. Unfortunately, since you're not using creatures you are limited on options. Here are some to consider:
- Discard, using cards like Liliana's Caress to deal direct life loss to the opponent.
- Mill (which I despise but it works).
- Lots of artifacts, ending with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas's Ultimate.
Stuff like that. It's really up to you.
Hope this helps!
April 19, 2017 1:38 a.m.
Drake haven in your decklist is a link to another deck. For convenience you may wanna fix that.
Also, you're at 60 cards, so what is it you're looking to cut down on?
The deck looks pretty good as it is. It could probably use more cards with Madness, since you're discarding from your hand a lot (unless those are going out of rotation? I don't remember these things).
April 18, 2017 6:51 p.m.
I get your interest in not overspending. It's something that every MTG player has to fight themselves over (myself included). Path to Exile doesn't give the opponent health but does give them a land. However, giving the opponent a land is worth removing a creature from the game completely for one mana.
The other two peeps above gave really good suggestions. Path to Exile, Remand, and Serum Visions are kind of your go-to in U/W Control, and then from there you grab what you want. Detention Sphere is really sexy for heavy removal, and Oblivion Ring is good as well.
Like Memphismaymagic5 said (although I shall paraphrase), Mana Leak is the basic bitch of counterspells. Cheap, easy, and fun, but there are so many different counterspells that which one you use is dependent on person preference and what you're up against. I am personally a fan of having a set of Rune Snag.
One thing, though, is that you should boost your landbase to 21-22 lands. Any less and you'll risk mana drought, and you don't want more than that unless you are consistently trying to drop CMC 5+ stuff.
The great thing about U/W Control is that once you've got the basic stuff down, there are several ways in which you can take it. I recommend taking a look at other decks, seeing what people are doing, and figure out what it is that you want to do with your deck. Then go from there.
April 18, 2017 1:35 a.m.
I don't particularly like Returned Phalanx. In an aggressive Zombie deck like this, you don't really want Defender unless it's something like Corpse Blockade, which may actually be decent as a 2-of or so here.
Don't forget that you still want to get Zombies into your graveyard so you can actually cast Skaab Goliath (and because it's a bit difficult to cast, keep it at like... a 3-of?). Carrion Feeder and Plague Belcher from the new set may help with that. I see a lot of decks like this use Grimgrin, Corpse-Born and sometimes Blood Artist, and Grimgrin may be a better option than Goliath. Something to consider.
Trying to think of other things here... there's a lot of things that one can do with Zombies. I'm a Control junkie so my Zombie token decks both have a lot of control, which means that I'm not altogether versed in aggro decks. I would suggest looking at other decks, seeing what they've got going on, and go from there. Your deck is definitely coming together, so keep working on it XD
April 18, 2017 midnight
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|Favorite formats||Modern, Casual|
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