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Looking forward to playtesting it for real.
I went with 2 in the end as per your suggestion. Also I'm pretty sure I can't afford 4 of those things.
I have re-written a lot of the description now to reflect stats and stuff about the final deck layout. I'll leave the comments here for anyone looking to build similiar because there's some interesting discussions. And of course, added my thanks to all your guys who helped with your suggestions and comments. Cheers!
May 19, 2018 6:47 p.m.
Oh right, woo, that's reassuring. Thanks!
How do you do the playtest on this site? I mean i see a playtest button on the menu, but it doesn't seem to play against anything, i can just draw play and tap cards.
May 17, 2018 6:51 p.m.
You reckon maybe 2 caverns in the deck, and 2 in the sideboard for if I'm up against control?I have no idea what my local metagame is if I'm honest - Guess I'll find out soon.
Which deck were you saying playtests really well?
May 17, 2018 6:26 p.m.
Also just got 2 Asceticism and 2 Kalonian Hydras left to source. When i've finally sourced those I will re-write the description section to explain how the deck works and explain any results i had from playtesting to reflect the 'final state'. thanks for the help so far everyone!
May 17, 2018 1:43 p.m.
Yeh, notably this deck seems to have a weakness to removal, but I'm a bit stuck with what to do on it. I have Vines of Vastwood's on order with much of the rest of the deck and it'll go in the sideboard, so i can play around with whether I take out Alpha Authority and 1 doubling for Vines. Vines seems more useful than blossoming defense in this deck as I'm likely to have the mana to spare for the kicker on it, and if not it can still be played as a 1-drop, it seems like the windows blossoming would be preferable in would be quite small, especially as with this deck delaying a turn often doubles the counters anyway (as with Primordial Hydra).
Hardened scales and Heroic are both nice cards. Again, i feel scales fits in a very specific window. I'll need 3 mana to cast something like Primordial Hydra, at 4 mana, i can just pay 1 extra mana to double the number of tokens i put on it using the cards effect. At 5 mana I can cast doubling season. I agree with this is of limited use until adding counters next turn, and this is probably where scales would be better.
Heroic, again nice cards, would be useful, but what do i remove? I remove creatures and I lower that creature count. I remove protection, but then i'm removing protection to add protection. I could lower the doubling season count, but it would only really get 1 in there, and I wouldn't want to go below 2 doubling seasons.
Vines of Vastwood are in the sideboard already, may just rotate them in to the normal as you suggested by lowering doubling season to 2, but I've decided since I've ordered both sets of cards to do that just by playtesting.
I've looked a Polukranos, and I don't really understand why it's a good card. It's 4 mana for a 5/5 which is nice, and uses the counters like most my hydras. But it's a crap load of mana for the removal (and if we're thinking of winning by turn 4-5, I've got to cast it turn 4, then probably wait till next turn for monstrosity, and the effect damages it, possibly harming it's ability to press the advantage until turn 6)m and the removal hurts it back, it's handy as a removal, but this seems like something beast within would do cheaper. It seems a little like it's doing both jobs but not super good at either one. But maybe I'm missing something, I'm pretty new to all this, so if i am, the explanation would definitely be appreciated.
Cavern of souls, is a nice way to stick some extra protection in via the land. It is a very expensive card so might pursue that one after I've bought the initial deck. Would you suggest removing 4 forest for 4 caverns?
Arbor Elf is already in there, so can't have any more as I'm at 4 maximum. I also have some Llanowar elves handy so can switch that when convenient, but further up the comments is a big discussion about Llanowar Elves or Arbor Elf / Utopia sprawl, and the latter seemed to win out. The birds are in there as a flying chump block, which Llanowar can't do, at the cost of having 1 power, but there are Arbor Elves for that!
Aspect of Hydra was on my list of initial considerations, and if it would be giving +X +1/+1 counters I think I'd have used it, and it is certainly nice to power up in a pinch, but it seems like I'm either going to use it to power something up enough to survive (in which case, maybe protection is a better choice), or it's a finishing move to power something up enough to really hurt with trample, but I've got things like big Garruk for that, and Hydra Broodmaster (Which also fills the mana dump slot that Polukranos might occupy, but by adding tokens, and it works with doubling season). The other thing is every turn delayed adds a factor of 2 tokens to things like Primordial hydra anyway, and aspect only last one turn, so much the same thing could be achieved with a card that delays one turn and allows the hydras to keep their gained tokens. Thoguh i accept that aspect would be much more flexible in this regard. I'm also not sure what I would take out for it.
Surrak looks really nice, I'd never heard of the card prior. It would be nice to work in to the deck, what would you suggest removing for it and how many?
Cheers for the +1 and taking the time to write all the tips, very much appreciated!
May 17, 2018 1:41 p.m.
So i've bought most the deck. Struggling to get hold of 2 Kalonian Hydras, 2 Asceticism, 2 Managorger Hydras, and 2 Doubling Seasons. If anyone knows of anywhere (preferably within the UK) that sells decent conditions version of these cards let me know.
May 16, 2018 9:14 p.m.
I think that would work for bioshift. However I think I prefer the functionality of solidarity for this deck.
May 15, 2018 6:56 p.m.
Yeh. That's kind of why i liked it (Though not sure why I'd attack with a 0 power creature). But I just don't know what I can afford to take out. That's the bit I'm struggling with now, most cards provide some real cool advantages and play opportunities, but something has to come out for it to be put in the deck y'know? So for now... I think I'll leave Bioshift out. But for anyone reading this who might design a similiar deck, definitely consider Bioshift.
May 13, 2018 12:48 p.m.
I quite liked the bioshift, but the argument seemed to be, it's primary useful vendor was to save counters on a dieing creature, which would be just as well saving the creature.
What should I remove to squeeze in the bioshifts?
May 12, 2018 3:39 a.m.
I do like the suggestions of Vines of Vastwood and Beast Within, though not sure what I would take out to fit them in? Will bare that in mind regarding Mistcutter Hydra.
Hydra Broodmaster is still green, could still use him or Worldspine Wurm?
May 10, 2018 8:54 a.m.
Ha - I like the thought process of 'hella fun'!
One last question - Ignoring the theme of the deck for the moment, given that 6cmc Garruk can summon any creature from my deck, what would be best in that slot?
Currently I have the Worldpsine Wurm, because it's green, possibly hard summonable if need be (though unlikely) and just doesn't go away, as well as a kind of game finisher. Though if I'm looking for a high mana game finisher that I probably won't summon normally, is there any reason not to just go all out and use Emrakul, the Aeons Torn? as that's more or less the ultimate in big ass creature that mess up your opponents day and won't go away (okay you won't get the double turn, but other than that). Alternatively, I could use the slot for the Hydra Broodmaster that a few have suggested - as it doesn't have an 'X' based summoning cost and I can use the piles mana the next turn to make it monstrous. It still does a pile of damage itself (Thoguh not as much as Worldspine Wurm or Emrakul) and lacks their tenacity in coming back from the graveyard, but even at the lowest end I should be able to spawn 3 3/3 Hydra tokens, though I don't think they get trample or anything.
So i guess my question is: For that 1x slot designed for Garruk summoning - Worldspine Wurm (As it currently is), Emrakul the Aeons Torn or Hydra Broodmaster?
After that, think I'm ready to buy my deck. Thank you everyone for all the help!
May 9, 2018 4:58 a.m.
Also, given I lack removals, should I include these? If so, what cards would be good for our and what should be removed?
May 7, 2018 12:31 p.m.
Some things I'd be interested in your guys opinions on:
1) Do you think 23 Lands is sufficient for this deck?2) Is 17 Creatures enough, or is my draw chance on creatures looking a bit low?3) Regarding, Protection. Is 2 Alpha Authority and 2 Asceticism the way to go?4) Would it be better to have the 2 Llanowar Elves or 2 Birds of Paradise for the flying block (since I have no reach or flying)?5) Deruvid mentioned removing the Worldspine Wurm. Personally I think it works, and is a good thing to keep for Garruk's -7 (And if it gets killed it can keep coming back). Thoughts?
Cheers for all the feedback guys.
May 7, 2018 10:59 a.m.
Hi Guys, Thank you for all the great feedback.
Okay, I'm convinced. I replaced the Gyre Sage / Llanowar Elves for Arbor Elf / Utopia Sprawl. Following Dervuid's suggestion I made space for 2 Llanowar Elves by reducing Kalonian Hydra to a 3-set and Managorger Hydra to a 3-set. I agree I need a little bit more at the low end of the mana costs, where as most my creatures i can always pay more mana for and have them scale.
Re: Hydra Broodmaster, I'm a little unsure what I would replace for it. I see it would do double work with the doubling season, just not sure what I would take out.
Budget is not a big issue. I don't want to have to sell my organs to buy my deck, but I have some funds i can throw it at it.
I replaced Reverent Hunter with Managorger Hydra.
Done. Kept 2 Llanowar and went with the arbor / utopia sprawl.
I'm unsure on this one. You're definitely right it's too big to dropped normally, but the idea is using Garruk's -7 ability to bring him out (or -3 if it happens to be in hand, but i'm not counting on that). With the doubling season around this might even be an ability that can be triggered right away. If I were to remove it, pretty much all my remaining creatures have an 'X' based mana costs, which counts as 0 if Garruk's ability put it there, so I think to have this available as an alternative victory condition that the single worldspine wurm might be better left in. I realise it's thematically inconsistent, but I'm not so married to the concept that I don't mind a small deviation. I was basically jsut building around Primordial Hydra.
Done. This seems like a strong replacement to split the Garruk's 2/2. I was worried the 4 Garruk's would lead to more dead cards as it was anyway.
Do you think it would be wise to replace the 2 Llanowar Elves for 2 Birds of Paradise?
Re: Strangleroot Geist, I see what you mean, I'm not too sure what I would remove for it?
In the end I took out Gyre Sage. I replaced 2 Asceticism with 2 Alpha Authority. I would like to know if you guys think this the best way to arrange the protection for this deck (As 2 asceticism / 2 alpha)
I'm not too sure about the Genesis Hydra. Pretty much every creature card it can bring out in my deck has an 'X' based mana cost which would come out as X=0, and so much of it's summoning power would be reduced. There's the Worldspine Wurm, but with only the 1 in my deck it'd be unlikely to draw.
May 7, 2018 10:45 a.m.
Thanks for the advice 12rreber. It's much appreciated
A) With the Arbor Elf / Utopia Sprawl combination, can you still use the effect to essentially cast something higher mana cost than the number of lands you have, such as with Llanowar elves? If not, does this not suffer compared to the Llanowar elves? I had Gyre Sage there mostly as it filled out a fairly low mana creature slot, scaled a bit, and could be used to stack up quite a bit of extra mana
C) I changed Khalni Hydra -> Kalonian Hydra, as it seemed like there would be too many high mana creatures if i swapped our reverent hunter, especially if i take out Gyre Sage too. It seemed unlikely I'd need Primordial, Khalni, and Kalonian as they all do much the same job.
D) Is the higher mana cost of Asceticism likely to be an issue?
E) Removed it. Though I'm curious as to why? (Sorry new to the game, still trying to learn stuff)
Yeh, now that you mention it, that doesn't seem a risk worth taking or that I get much extra from it. I just kind of thoguht 'hey free creature' i suppose. I switched it out for 4x Forest extra. Do you think 23 lands is sufficient for this deck?
May 5, 2018 4:17 p.m.
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