Zaxara and the Value of X
Asked by Paeldroth 4 years ago
Hey all,
I'm looking to make Zaxara, the Exemplary once the precons drop, and I had a couple questions. First, the X value in it's triggered ability... I'm curious how it reacts based on two different scenarios.
The first is Gargos, Vicious Watcher. Since Gargos can effectively make X=4 without mana investment for Hydras cast, how would that work? For instance... I have Gargos in play. I tap UG and indicate Gargos is covering X as 4, and play a Hydroid Krasis. Is the value of X then 0 because I spent 0 mana on it, or is it 4 because the end result was that Hydroid Krasis was played for 6 CMC which was reduced to 2?
Second scenario is Unbound Flourishing. Same sort of concept, but for the purpose of Zaxara's trigger, are we looking at the final product of X or what was spent?
Thanks for the help!
Tylord2894 thank you! That is very helpful, and how I imagined both scenarios to work. I don't play with X often so this is a new and frankly exciting direction for me to take things.
April 7, 2020 10:58 a.m.
Tylord2894 says... #3
In case people ask, here are the rules that apply to each scenario.
First:
601.2b ... If the spell has a variable cost that will be paid as it’s being cast (such as an {X} in its mana cost; see rule 107.3), the player announces the value of that variable. ...
601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell. ... The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. ...
601.2h The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can’t be paid.
Second:
107.3. Many objects use the letter X as a placeholder for a number that needs to be determined. Some objects have abilities that define the value of X; the rest let their controller choose the value of X.
April 7, 2020 11:03 a.m.
For the first question, the Gargos Gatherer entry hsa some interesting tidbits:
If a spell has {X} in its mana cost, you choose the value for X before applying cost reductions. For example, if you cast a Hydra spell with mana cost {X}{G}{G} and choose for X to be 6, you pay {2}{G}{G}. Any of that Hydra’s abilities that refer to X still uses 6 as the value for X regardless of what you actually paid. (2019-07-12)
For the second scenario, the Gatherer entry of Unbound Flourishing has a couple of rulings that explain what happens:
Unbound Flourishing raises the value of X for permanent spells, but you don’t pay any more mana. (2019-06-14) If a permanent has an ability that triggers when it’s cast and that references the value of X, you choose whether to double the value of X before or after that ability resolves. (2019-06-14)
April 8, 2020 4:07 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
Paeldroth: Since it's clear you got a satisfactory answer to your question, I marked it as the "Accepted answer" so that this topic can move out of the list of unanswered questions. Please remember to take care of this yourself in the future.
April 8, 2020 8:42 a.m.
Tylord2894 How about a scenario with Unbound Flourishing and Zaxara out in play. I then move to cast a instant/sorcery like Exsanguinate, do I get two Zaxara cast triggers? Or does the copy from Unbound Flourishing not count as a cast?
April 20, 2020 10:04 a.m.
Tylord2894 says... #8
MrDimir, copies effects never count as a cast. If a spell or ability has been cast and a copy of it is made, you are not casting the copy. Instead, the copy is created on the stack. Some effects, like Isochron Scepter or God-Eternal Kefnet, copy cards that then can be cast; however, the act of copying those cards is not a cast. You later cast them. Wording here is very important.
Hope that helps!
April 20, 2020 10:11 a.m.
i was wondering if hydra broodmasters monstrosity would trigger zaxra im fairly new to mtg so i dont know how everything works but i couldnt find an answer to this anywhere else
July 23, 2020 1:37 p.m.
Tylord2894 says... #11
seavyboi for future questions, you can always start a thread if you want (that way you don't have to dig for semi-related threads).
To your question though, the short answer is no, Hydra Broodmaster's Monstrosity ability won't trigger Zaxara's ability. Zaxara triggers when you cast a spell with an in its mana cost. The Broodmaster's Monstrosity ability is just that, an ability not a spell. You are not casting anything when activating its Monstrosity ability, so Zaxara won't trigger.
Hope this helps!!
Tylord2894 says... Accepted answer #1
So for the first scenario, when you announce your intentions to cast a spell, you pick a value for . A few steps later in the casting process, you calculate reduces for the mana that you need to spend. Then, you actually spend the mana. In your Hydroid Krasis example, if you pay UG for it while Gargos is out, the value of is still 4.
The second scenario is quite interesting. Since Unbound Flourishing and Zaxara have cast triggers, you get to order them. Let's say you want to resolve the Unbound Flourishing trigger first. Using the example from above, your Hydroid Krasis where is 4 would instead have be 8. When the Zaxara trigger resolves, you would get a token with 8 counters on it. This is because is a placeholder. Any changes to it are mirrored on both the Hydroid Krasis and Zaxara trigger.
April 7, 2020 10:50 a.m.