Zada, Hedron Grinder interactions with the support mechanic and Silverfur Partisan

Asked by VexxValentine 3 years ago

okay so lets say i have a Zada, Hedron Grinder out and i have a few wolf werewolf creatures and a Silverfur Partisan and i have a Lead by Example in hand and i go to cast it targeting Zada, Hedron Grinder and only zada to pop her effect now my question is when the spell is copied can i retart zada with one of the copies since the support mechanic isnt a locked target and esentially go infinate by adding more and more counters: also since the spells are targeting my wolfs/werewolfs will Silverfur Partisan make a 2/2 wolf for each spell or each targeted creature that gets a +1/+1

Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #1

The targets of the copies can't be split, but you do get wolves.

Copying a spell also copies all decisions made while casting it, including targets, number of targets, distribution of damage or counters, the use of an alternate cost, and a couple other things. The copy effect will tell you exactly what changes, if any, are being made to those copies. Most spell-copying effects let you choose new targets, but Zada, Hedron Grinder's effect specifically tells you what the new targets are. Also, there are currently no copy effects in the game that will allow the number of targets of a spell to be changed.

"Becomes the target of" means first it wasn't a target, and now it is. Because Silverfur Partisan's ability doesn't care about whether the instant or sorcery was cast, the copies made by Zada will trigger it. Compare this to the Heroic ability, in which casting does matter (and won't trigger for a copy made by Zada): Hero of Iroas, etc.

May 2, 2016 3:53 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #2

You don't control the targeting process for the copies. Zada's ability creates one copy of the spell for each other creature you control that the spell could target. You can't choose to arbitrarily create an additional copy for Zada or change one of the copies to target Zada.

I don't really understand what you mean by saying that support doesn't have a locked target. Support targets. In this case, you can only do anything with Zada's ability of you choose to target only Zada with the original spell.

May 2, 2016 3:54 p.m.

VexxValentine says... #3

so what happens is Lead by Example's effect would only put a single +1/+1 on a target creature that was designated by Zada, Hedron Grinder because Lead by Example still targets said designated creature and does/doesnt it allow for the other +1/+1 to be put on another creature since the support ability says add x +1/+1 counter(s) on up to x creature(s)

May 2, 2016 4:02 p.m.

VexxValentine says... #4

okay i got it since the mode of 1 creature is targeted and then copied then each copied spell will have the same mode and say target 1 creature

May 2, 2016 4:07 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #5

Each copy of Lead by Example only targets one thing and only gives one counter. As was mentioned earlier, you choose the number of targets while casting the spell and the copy effect doesn't allow that choice to be changed.

It's not a "mode" choice in the sense of the specific game term, but you get the idea.

May 2, 2016 4:08 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #6

You're correct in saying that each instance of Lead by Example will put only one counter on one target. However, note that Zada's ability produces one copy per creature you control that the spell could target. Say you control Zada, Silverfur, and three random werewolves. You'd get four copies: one for each of your werewolves, counting Silverfur.

Each copy would trigger Silverfur's ability, so you'd end up with four 2/2 tokens, and each of the creatures you controlled when you first cast Lead by Example will get a +1/+1 counter.

May 2, 2016 4:08 p.m.

VexxValentine says... #7

thank you for helping me out ive been build a zada deck with silverfur because it operates like krenko, mob boss except with wolfs and i find it hilarious to do because my original thought was oh this basically means i triple my creature base and at sorcery speed but since it doesnt work like that, and honestly thank god it doesnt, and only doubles

May 2, 2016 4:11 p.m.

VexxValentine says... #8

instant* speed

May 2, 2016 4:12 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #9

If your question has been answered please select an answer to remove this from the unanswered queue. If you still have questions feel free to ask for clarification.

May 2, 2016 6:58 p.m.

JaceToFace says... #10

A interesting alternative to Lead by Example is Confront the Unknown. Throw in a Tireless Tracker as another cheap Collected Company target and Clue generator and you've got some incredibly strong +x/+x random creatures and tokens. Howlpack Resurgence gives trample at instant speed, so your opponent can't even chump block and Expedite gives you the card draw to throw out the combo multiple times.

May 3, 2016 6:52 p.m.

This discussion has been closed