With Dictate of Erebos on the board, Keening Apparition targets an enchantment creature...
Asked by alehman42 9 years ago
I have Dictate of Erebos and a Keening Apparition on the board. Opponent has a Courser of Kruphix and another creature. I sacrifice the apparition, targeting the courser for destruction.
My understanding is because paying the cost of the apparition's ability (sacrificing it) sets off 2 abilities (the apparition's activated ability and the dictate's triggered one), I can put them on the stack in the order I choose and kill the courser and then make my opponent sac a creature.
I had it argued against me that sacrificing the apparition put its activated ability on the stack immediately, and then the dictate's triggered ability would be put on the stack afterwards. Obviously this would allow my opponent to sac the courser to the dictate's ability, fizzling the apparition's ability and sparing the other creature. Also obviously, this is less than optimal for me.
Was I mistaken?
gary1976us says... #2
Put it this way, you have to "sacrifice" the creature before the creature can die and since they're both instants they hit the stack almost the same time. So you when you pay the Keening Apparition 's cost, only then does the Dictate of Erebos s ability get put on the stack so since it was last it resolves first allowing your opponent to sac the creature you're targeting instead of losing two.
July 21, 2014 9:04 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #3
The way gary1976us explained it is what is confusing the OP, they don't hit "almost at the same time". You announce spells or abilities and then put them on the stack. Only after that do you pay the cost. Since most people tap their mana before casting a spell or activating an ability there is a misconception that you pay for a spell or ability before it is put on the stack. This is untrue, people are simply in the habit of floating mana to pay for a spell.The way Draugo explained it is clear and complete.
July 21, 2014 9:49 a.m.
gary1976us says... #4
@Gidgetimer , yes if you want to be that technical then you announce, stack it, then pay; however, I felt the "technicalities" of the stack is what is confusing the OP. I tried to explain it in a different way so maybe it was easier to understand to the OP. I was trying to take the "technical" out of it.
July 21, 2014 10:51 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
"My understanding is because paying the cost of the apparition's ability (sacrificing it) sets off 2 abilities...I can put them on the stack in the order I choose and kill the courser and then make my opponent sac a creature."
Nope, not understanding how the stack and paying for spells and abilities works and assuming that you pay, then put on the stack is what is confusing OP. Saying that "since they're both instants they hit the stack almost the same time" only reinforces that misconception.
July 21, 2014 11:06 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #6
A question with an answer that hinges on technical details usually needs to be answered in a technical way.
The process of casting a spell or activating an ability has a number of steps to it. Announcing the spell/ability and putting it onto the stack is the very first step, and paying costs is the very last step. Dictate of Erebos triggers when you pay the cost for activating Keening Apparition , so when the trigger is put onto the stack it will be on top of the activated ability. This means the trigger will resolve first, and the opponent can choose to sacrifice the Enchantment Creature being targeted by the activated ability.
A player being able to choose the order of abilities is for situations where multiple triggered abilities are trying to go onto the stack at the same time, but that's not what's happening in this example.
July 21, 2014 11:25 a.m.
gary1976us says... #7
Ok, apparently I need to pay more attention to the way I word things. What I meant by "since they're both instants they hit the stack almost the same time" is that they are both stacked but he/she doesn't get to choose how because you target, stack, pay cost of Keening Apparition so the ability is already stacked when it triggers the Dictate of Erebos in that order (no choice) Erebos 's ability was last so it resolves first.
Draugo says... #1
Short answer: Yes.
What happens is that you declare you are going to use the Keening Apparition 's ability and name the target. After this the ability is put on the stack and you pay the costs associated with activating the ability, in this case sacrificing the Keening Apparition . This then triggers the Dictate of Erebos and the triggered ability is put on the stack the next time someone would receive priority (this happens when the activation process of Keening Apparition 's ability is complete but before your opponent or you receive priority.
This means that the Dictate of Erebos 's ability will resolve first and your opponent gets to sacrifice the creature you targeted with Keening Apparition after which the aberrations ability will fizzle for not having legal targets.
July 21, 2014 3:47 a.m.