Will Sulfuric Vortex stop Rain of Gore?
Asked by dragonstryke58 5 years ago
I just wanted to double check if Sulfuric Vortex will stop Rain of Gore.
Originally, my playgroup thought it does, but after a while I think that depending how I layer the replacement effects, they wouldn't interact with each other.
Basically, if I have Rain of Gore happen first after a player tries to gain life, the replacement effect will change it so that they lose life instead. Then, Sulfuric Vortex would see the player losing life instead of gaining life and not take effect. Is this correct?
Additionally, am I correct thinking that Everlasting Torment would stop Rain of Gore since it is a static ability which affects the rules of the game (it establishes that no player can gain life at all)?
dragonstryke58 says... #2
Thanks!
I keep forgetting that replacement effects are chosen by the affected party and not the owner of the permanent causing the effect.
September 23, 2018 10:10 p.m.
According to rule 616.1, "616.1 If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4)."
So it's the affected player in your instance who chooses which to apply. When your opponent tries to gain life, as the affected player, they choose which one they prefer, not you. They would most likely choose Sulfuric Vortex's effect, so they gain no life, rather than Rain of Gore which would cause them to lose life. In addition, lifegain from lifelink actually is not affected by Rain of Gore, while it is affected by Sulfuric Vortex.
You are correct about Everlasting Torment. Per its rulings: "Effects that would replace gaining life with some other effect won’t be able to do anything because it’s impossible for players to gain life. (2008-05-01)"
September 23, 2018 10:15 p.m.
dragonstryke58 says... #5
@Kogarashi: Thanks for pointing out the interaction with Lifelink.
I mainly use these two cards (and their like) to stop players who play Oloro, Ageless Ascetic commander decks, but the Lifelink reminder is important to keep in mind too.
September 23, 2018 11:32 p.m.
Lifegain from lifeline is not effected by rain of gore only in the case of combat damage. Brion Stoutarm will still make you lose life flinging things.
Gidgetimer says... Accepted answer #1
Everlasting Torment 100% stops Rain of Gore every time since "can't" effects can only be replaced by self replacement effects (this is a small subset of replacement effects and Rain of Gore isn't one of them).
Sulfuric Vortex stops Rain of Gore if the affected player wants it to. The order of replacement effects is chosen by the affected player or the controller of the affected permanent.
616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).
September 23, 2018 10:07 p.m.