Which creature abilities can a creature legally have multiple copies of? Maelstrom Wanderer
Asked by SmugLookingBarrel 7 years ago
So Maelstrom Wanderer has double Cascade, and Adriana, Captain of the Guard talks about having multiple instances of Melee. I'm wondering if there are any other abilities that can stack like this? Obviously things like haste don't make sense, but can a creature have double Lifelink? Or double Prowess?
Ultimately the rules are the judge, as many abilities include the line about multiple instances being redundant. As a general rule though, triggered abilities like the ones you mentioned will trigger for each one on the card. Static abilities are redundant because they just state something to be the case. Deathtouch and Lifelink are both interesting cases because they used to be triggered abilities that happened as the result of damage but have been changed to static abilities that change the result of damage, so they used to work in multiples but no longer do.
Also, a correction to darkmatter32x. Multiple instances of Flanking trigger separately, as is a triggered ability. From the rules:
702.24b: If a creature has multiple instances of flanking, each triggers separately
And Cavalry Master's second ability would do nothing if flanking didn't stack.
November 27, 2016 6:35 p.m.
SmugLookingBarrel says... #4
What about Annihilator? That's a triggered ability (Works the same way as Melee, triggerring when a creature attacks), if I were to enchant Emrakul, the Aeons Torn with Eldrazi Conscription would it have Annihilator 2, Annihilator 6, or both?
November 27, 2016 6:49 p.m.
702.85b: If a creature has multiple instances of annihilator, each triggers separately
Effectively this will usually be the same as Annihilator 6, but it is still 2 abilities, Annihilator 4 and Annihilator 2, and you choose the order they go on the stack. Additionally, in two-headed Giant game, the Annihilator triggers can choose different defending players for each trigger, but the full effect of a trigger has to go at one player. That is, you can have 1 player sacrifice 6, or split it 4 at one player 2 at the other. You can't have each sacrifice 3.
November 27, 2016 7:02 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #6
Correction, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn has annihilator 6, not annihilator 4, and Eldrazi Conscription has annihilator 2 for a total of annihilator 8.
November 27, 2016 7:13 p.m.
Sorry, I'd forgotten how powerful Emrakul was and thought he had annihilator 4, not 6. So yes, he has both. Replace each 6 in my previous answer with 8, and each 4 with 6. Or assume I was answering if Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre had Eldrazi Conscription.
November 27, 2016 7:15 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #8
Very important correction: Emrakul is a "she". :P
November 27, 2016 9:18 p.m.
Something that wasn't really answered is whether a creature can have multiple instances of an ability - yes, it can. A Charging Badger enchanted with Rancor will have Trample, Trample, and Emrakul enchanted with Eldrazi Conscription will have Annihilator 6, Annihilator 2. There is no special rule about some abilities being applicable only once, and others multiple times, and the statement about redundancy is there mostly for clarification reasons, as you can already deduct from the abilities' way to function whether it's going to have additional effects in multiples.
Unlike what Neotrup's answer states, the function of an ability determines whether it's effective in multiples, not the rules, and certainly not the type - most prominently, not every static ability is redundant in multiples, not even by a long shot.
To give an example, Buyback (a combination of two static abilities) is not redundant at all, as a card could have both Buyback and Buyback , for example, which is obviously different than a card that just has Buyback . Even two instances of Buyback wouldn't be redundant, as you would get the option to pay an extra or while casting the spell.
Here's a list of static or part-static keyword abilities not redundant in multiples:
Buyback, Fading, Amplify, Kicker, Flashback, Affinity, Modular, Sunburst, Splice, Offering, Dredge, Bloodthirst, Replicate, Graft, Suspend, Vanishing, Absorb, Evoke, Prowl, Conspire, Devour, Overload, Bestow, Tribute, Hidden Agenda, Dash, Awaken, Surge, Emerge, Escalate, Undaunted
While you might argue that there's no way (yet?) to give cards multiples of some of these abilities, they're still not redundant by design, only by environment - future cards may allow currently existing cards to function differently, and it very well wouldn't be the first, second, or even third time.
Getting back to the point of the phrase "[some ability] is redundant in multiples" not being the last word, some but not all of the static abilities I listed will state "If a creature has multiple instances of [some ability], each one works separately.". This is independant of actual application (for example, it's listed for Amplify, even though there's no way known to me how you could give a card multiple instances of Amplify), and it's not at all stated for every single non-redundant static ability.
While I'm at it, to give an example where activated abilities are redundant: If you control a Puresteel Paladin and three Lightning Greaves, each Greaves will have Equip , Equip . Activated abilities can each be activated, so they're never by definition redundant - but in this case, they're redundant by application, due to their function.
November 28, 2016 11:44 a.m.
Most of the static abilities you've mentioned fall into the category of replacement effects or alternate/additional costs. And yes, multiple instances of replacement effects are not redundant, and you choose the order in which they apply. Ultimately though, my statement on rules matter is the ultimate determiner, as a keyword specific rule will override a general rule. Also, even if multiple instances is determined by other rules, many abilities will still list whether multiple instances are each work separately.
Also, multiple instances of Hidden Agenda would be redundant. You'd choose which replacement effect to apply. Then the conspiracy would be face-down and have no abilities, thus the second Hidden Agenda could not be applied. Thankfully we have Double Agenda.
Also, some of these static abilities would be redundant if they had the same value (similar to your equip example):
Multikicker, Flashback, Offering, Dredge, Replicate, Suspend (though the trigger would not be redundant), Evoke, Prowl, Devour, Overload, Bestow, Dash, Awaken, Surge, and Emerge.
This is because they are all alternative costs where you choose how your casting it, or additional costs that can be paid repeated without additional instances.
November 28, 2016 1:28 p.m.
@Neotrup: The reason why I tried to clarify what's going on is that you pretty much wrote "static abilities are always redundant", which is not correct. As I said, not all of the named ones are going to be largely important, and as you said, most of them are about alternate/additional costs - but none of those observations justifies throwing a rule of thumb out there that is strictly wrong, especially when you don't even note that there are exceptions.
As for "a keyword specific rule will override a general rule", I don't know where you're coming from with that... mind giving any reference?
As for Hidden Agenda, none of it's rules text says anything that would suggest it would be redundant. The way I see it, Double Agenda is just another way to write Hidden Agenda, Hidden Agenda.
I also can't think of any Conspiracies with replacement effects, so I suppose you're talking about a specific card? Of course, I might be wrong, especially since I'm not big on Conspiracy.
And, as for abilities possibly being redundant: Yes, possibly, but not by design - as your rule suggested.
November 28, 2016 2:24 p.m.
702.105a: _Hidden agenda is a static ability that functions as a conspiracy card with hidden agenda is put into the command zone. Hidden agenda means As you put this conspiracy card into the command zone, turn it face down and secretly name a card.
This is a replacement effect modifying the event of putting the conspiracy into the command zone at the start of the game.
313.5b: Face-down conspiracy cards have no characteristics.
616.1e: Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply.)
You choose one of the instances of Hidden Agenda to apply, then you reassess what replacement effects can now be applied. As the Conspiracy no longer has Hidden Agenda (as it's face-down), there are no more replacement effects and the event is preformed as the Conspiracy being put into the command zone face-down with a card secretly named.
As for my claiming static abilities are redundant, you are correct that that is not always the case, but it is a pretty good general rule, considering only 7 of your example are currently possible, with the most recent being 5 years ago for standard.
As for keywords overriding rules, that's what they do. They add an ability to a card, and the golden rule of magic is the card overrides the rules. Any rule within the keyword's section takes precedent over everything else in the rules with regards to that keyword.
darkmatter32x says... #1
Some abilities do stack, like cascade, and melee as these are triggered abilities.
Abilities like trample ,vigilance, lifelink, Double Strike, First Strike, Flanking, Deathtouch etc. do not stack as they are static abilities.
If you look at the comprehensive rules, it will state something like this.
702.20c Multiple instances of vigilance on the same creature are redundant.
November 27, 2016 6:19 p.m. Edited.