When are +1/+1 counters from Sunbond on a Creature with lifelink applied?

Asked by Tempeszt 10 years ago

So, I'm fighting an opponent with my American Young Pyromancer deck, and he attacks with a Brimaz, but not just any Lord of the Kitties, this one has Sunbond and Unflinching Courage on it.

He hasn't gained any life since casting the Sunbond and I declare to block with two of my 1/1 Elemental tokens, and cast the "Turn" half of Turn / Burn on Brimaz; following up with a Mizzium Skin and then a Boros Charm giving one of the elementals double-strike.

My opponent's assertion is that Brimaz-cum-Froggie is now a 2/3 with lifelink and trample, which I agree with. He further asserts that when Bribbit deals his damage in the normal damage step, and is dealt his 2, the +1/+1 counters from Sunbond go on before he dies.

It's one of the most complex interactions I've run across in actual play. Any insight?

Tempeszt says... #1

Doh, I thought there was a preview step. Brimaz == Brimaz, King of Oreskos

April 16, 2014 1:37 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... Accepted answer #2

Your opponent is incorrect. Sunbond gives the triggered ability to the creature, so the ability is lost while Turn / Burn 's effect is still, well, effective.

Brimaz, King of Oreskos is actually just a 2/3 with no abilities. Lifelink and trample are both abilities, so Turn removes them until EOT. No lifegain, no trample, no triggers.

April 16, 2014 1:50 a.m.

Tempeszt says... #3

Aha! His argument was that, while the base creature is a 0/1 frog, it still has the enchantments attached to it, thus it still gets their abilities.

I'll have to study up on replacement effects and school him in the proper fear of Turn / Burn .

Thanks!

April 16, 2014 2:11 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #4

Well, the enchantments are still attached. However, the ability-removing effect temporarily removes any native and conferred abilities, so they don't matter this turn.

April 16, 2014 2:12 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #5

Note that the creature is still a 2/3 because effects that set P/T are applied before effects that modify P/T.

Read up on the layer system (just Google "MTG Layers"). It'll explain more.

April 16, 2014 2:13 a.m.