What is the correct way to communicate that you are skipping to a phase/end of turn without declaring each phase/step?

Asked by Zaes 6 years ago

If the active player declares that they are moving directly to combat (and simultaneously turn their creatures sideways) or ending their turn after the draw step, do the other players have the chance to play spells and activate abilities at the end of phases until the declare attackers step becomes the current step in the turn? If there are any official rules that support this, can you please link them? I have looked through the Comprehensive Rulebook and could not identify any direct rules that support this (rather, they support my stance, as indicated below).

For background, the impression in my playgroup is that if the active player untaps, upkeeps, draws, declares "Move to combat" and turned their creatures sideways (or "pass turn" or "move to X step") without the active player activating any abilities or casting spells, nonactive players cannot interject to say "I have a response at the end of your [insert desired phase here]''.

To my understanding, whenever the active player passes priority in this way, even if they do not verbally declare this, they still require the other players in turn order to actively pass priority before confirming the creatures they attack with in the declare attackers step. The rest of the group do not believe that this is the case, declaring that I have already missed my chance, despite the active player being unclear about which step they are in.

Similarly, whenever a player casts a spell, or uses an ability that uses the stack, they have to wait for other players to declare that they either have or don't have a response (and thus action that response accordingly) in turn order.

The simplest interaction that I can think of is if the active player casts a spell, such as Insurrection, then immediately declares combat. Typically in my playgroup, a player that is not next-in-line to pass priority publicizes the want to Cryptic Command, taps the mana and casts the spell, choosing to counter Insurrection and "Tap all creatures your opponents control". However, the next on-active player intended to activate War Tax in response to casting Insurrection, which changes the Cryptic Command player's decision to cast Cryptic Command.

This typically causes angst from the active player, as they believe that the turn is already in the combat step and not giving the other players the chance to cast spells or activate abilities at the end of phases.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Your help is greatly appreciated :)

Rhyno52 says... Accepted answer #1

You are totally right, at the and of each phase (untap and combat phase excluded) the active player has to pass priority to the other player, in an multiplayer it would be all other players by simply following the turn order. so player 1 is active the next turn player 2 would be active so player 2 got the first priority after player 1.

I only got this link here (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/15678-priority-and-the-stack) its all written down there to better understand how it works, if you want to get the rules, download the rules from (http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules).

Those are the phrases.

  1. Timing and Priority

116.1. Unless a spell or ability is instructing a player to take an action, which player can take actions atany given time is determined by a system of priority. The player with priority may cast spells,activate abilities, and take special actions.

116.3. Which player has priority is determined by the following rules:

116.3a The active player receives priority at the beginning of most steps and phases, after any turnbasedactions (such as drawing a card during the draw step; see rule 703) have been dealt withand abilities that trigger at the beginning of that phase or step have been put on the stack. Noplayer receives priority during the untap step. Players usually dont get priority during thecleanup step (see rule 514.3).

116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.116.3c If a player has priority when he or she casts a spell, activates an ability, or takes a specialaction, that player receives priority afterward.

116.3d If a player has priority and chooses not to take any actions, that player passes. If any mana isin that players mana pool, he or she announces what mana is there. Then the next player in turnorder receives priority.

116.4. If all players pass in succession (that is, if all players pass without taking any actions in betweenpassing), the spell or ability on top of the stack resolves or, if the stack is empty, the phase or stepends.

116.5. Each time a player would get priority, the game first performs all applicable state-based actionsas a single event (see rule 704, State-Based Actions), then repeats this process until no state-basedactions are performed. Then triggered abilities are put on the stack (see rule 603, HandlingTriggered Abilities). These steps repeat in order until no further state-based actions are performedand no abilities trigger. Then the player who would have received priority does so.

116.6. In a multiplayer game using the shared team turns option, teams rather than individual playershave priority. See rule 805, Shared Team Turns Option.

I hope it helps.

June 16, 2017 3:15 a.m.

Rhyno52 says... #2

For me it is like they are caged in the rules that where 20 years ago. xD

June 16, 2017 3:21 a.m.

Neotrup says... #3

Etiquette will vary from playgroup to playgroup, but you do always have a chance to respond to ending a step or phase (except untap step and most cleanup steps). Which steps you'll announce moving out of will vary from format to format and based on board state. (standard with no upkeep triggers will usually effectively ignore that step while legacy with untapped Rishadan Ports will want you to announce "move to draw"). If you have creatures that can attack you should always announce "move to combat" if you have any intention of attacking, and often even if you don't. In multiplayer you might even start tapping creatures as you declare it, though not specify who is getting attacked by what yet. If your opponents explicitly or implicitly let you continue to combat after a reasonable pause your good to declare attacks. If someone is concerned about priority they can make sure each person before (and after) them have a chance to respond, which is a good call to make once in a while even if you aren't personally responding, just so people don't assume you have a response every time you bring it up. If your group typically skips through a particular step you are free to ask "tell me when your going to [step]" to make sure they acknowledge it, even if you don't have an action to take this time, especially if you have an effect on board your not decided on whether your using. Shortcuts are important though, as you don't want to stop 12 times each turn to make sure nobody's casting an instant. Oh, and importantly, if someone is floating mana, announce when you're moving phases, so they have a chance to spend it before it clears.

June 16, 2017 4:31 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #4

Simply put: Magic isn't a game of reflexes. A player can't lock their opponents out of making plays or responses by skipping steps and playing too quickly. If a player wants to communicate that they're skipping ahead to a certain step, then they simply need to say something like "go to (step)" and see if anyone says "hey wait, I have something before that happens".

If you want a reference from the Comprehensive Rules, consider the rules about Shortcuts in Section 719. I won't quote it all here, but these are the important parts:

  • A player with priority can propose a shortcut with a legal sequence of decisions/actions based on the current board state and the predictable results of those decisions/actions
  • The next player in turn order chooses to either accept that shortcut or propose a new, shorter one where they take a different decision/action at some point versus what was originally proposed
  • The next player in turn order will make their choice based on the new shortcut (not the original one) and so on and so forth around the table
  • When the last player in turn order makes their choice, the final "edited" version of the shortcut gets played out

The answer to your essential question is that if a player doesn't give their opponents a chance to either accept or alter a given shortcut before playing it out, then they aren't following the rules of the game. They need to back up and do it correctly (from Section 720, "Handling Illegal Actions").

In your example with Insurrection, the player who's thinking about casting Cryptic Command only gets once chance to make that choice. They can't go back and change their mind based on what someone else says later (some groups are okay with a bit of table talk to strategize before anyone starts making choices, but some groups aren't).

June 16, 2017 10:52 a.m.

Yeah, quite frankly, it's a common misconception that the active player has control over steps or phases. They don't. The game moves from one step to the next, and it does not move to the Declare Attackers step until EVERYBODY has passed priority during the Beginning of Combat step, and the Main Phase that preceded it.

June 16, 2017 4:03 p.m.

Schuesseled says... #6

Indeed you are correct, priority passes to each player in turn before a step/phase can end. If you are doing something like cast Insurrection and immediately try to start swinging, your opponents have privilege to tell you to hold the fuck up. If they realise they could have done something after saying they had no response or after a reasonable amount of time, well then that's tough.

June 17, 2017 6:59 a.m.

Zaes says... #7

Thanks everyone for your responses! I'm glad to hear that I'm not the mad hatter when it comes to passing priority between phases and the stack.

Thanks for providing the rules too! Looks like I'll have a sit-down with the group and go through the rules and maybe some examples of basic and complex (edh) circumstances (cause I know these guys aren't the kind of people that will read an online article).

Have any of you found yourself in a similar position? How did you educate the group about how the intricacies of Magc: The Gathering works?

June 17, 2017 7:18 a.m.

Neotrup says... #8

Personally I put Knowledge Pool in every one of my EDH decks, kinda forces you to learn how to use the stack. Not exactly the same as moving from one phase to another, but similar concept. I was also learning as they were, so educating myself as much as them.

June 17, 2017 1:30 p.m.

Zaes says... #9

Neotrup, interesting ... I might try that. Do you play with people that are, uh, 'resistant' to learning the nuances of the game? I tried a similar tactic with Possibility Storm. However, the meta (4 or 5 of us total, most of which have only really dug into the intricacies of Magic over the last 6 months or so) reacted in a holistic "this is f** bullshit" manner that was not productive to learning. Moreover, the way the players reacted created an unaccepting environment for the style of play that Possibility Storm tends to lean towards.Did you experience this in your meta? Were there players that were resistant to learning complex interactions, only accepting the basics of the game as the only way to play? How did your meta handle the difference in play styles?

July 2, 2017 7:14 a.m.

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