What exactly are not abilities?
Asked by MagicalHacker 9 years ago
If I have Nissa's Chosen on the battlefield with a Humility on the battlefield, will it still get put on the bottom of my library instead of dying? I remember learning about how unblockable was worded to no longer be confused for an ability and indestructible was made into one in a recent oracle text update on gatherer, and was wondering how to tell if Humility gets rid of particular text by discerning if it's an ability. Thanks!
Is it in the card's textbox, or an ability granted to the permanent by some other effect? It's an ability.
"CARDNAME is unblockable" and "CARDNAME is indestructible" were both abilities (and their new equivalents both are also). The confusion there comes from things which said, for example, "Target creature is indestructible this turn." That didn't actually grant an ability (though now it does, since indestructible is now a keyword and the ability would be errated to be "Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn.")
July 19, 2014 5:43 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #3
I know before M14's rule change, Humility wouldn't affect whether a creature was indestructible or not (reference). I figured that any text is an ability, but that's just simply not true apparently. So what's the rule of thumb when it comes to determining what's an ability and what's not?
July 19, 2014 9:09 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #4
From your reference:
A permanent is made indestructible by another spell or ability (for example, Withstand Death), and then it loses all abilities. Previously, it would still be indestructible, because that was just something true about the permanent. It wasn't an ability the permanent had. With the change, the permanent will no longer have indestructible.
All rules text on a card is abilities. The way indestructible used to work is that if Object A made Object B indestructible then it was a static effect from A's ability. Object B loosing all abilities wouldn't affect the indestructibility. The M14 rules change made it so that indestructible is a keyword and those types of effects started granting a keyword ability to Object B instead of having a static effect from Object A's ability.
July 19, 2014 10:32 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
@MagicalHacker: Except is is true, as was just explained.
The M14 rules update changed indestructible to be a keyword rather than a characteristic so that it functioned like normal abilities.
Unblockable is not a keyword because there are so many forms of unblockable (can't be blocked except by creatures with reach, for example) that keywording one of them would be confusing and functionally pointless.
From the CR definition:
112.1a. An ability is a characteristic an object has that lets it affect the game. An object's abilities are defined by its rules text or by the effect that created it. Abilities can also be granted to objects by rules or effects. (Effects that do so use the words "has," "have," "gains," or "gain.") Abilities generate effects. (See rule 609, "Effects.")112.1b. An ability can be an activated or triggered ability on the stack. This kind of ability is an object. (See section 6, "Spells, Abilities, and Effects.")
July 19, 2014 11:11 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #6
According to that reference, Stuffy Doll became an indestructible 1/1 when Humility is on the field back before M14, so why didn't that used to count as an ability? What dictates whether card text is a static ability or a characteristic of the card itself?
July 19, 2014 11:14 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
I can find neither Stuffy Doll
nor Humility
named by name in the reference you provided. The only things I see on indestructible at all are the passage I quoted; some exposition on why this isn't that big of a change; and another passage saying that now creatures that enter the battlefield after something that gives indestructible until the end of turn won't be indestructible.
Please provide where you saw Stuffy Doll
became an indestructible 1/1 with Humility
so that we can better assist you in understanding because what Epochalyptik provided was the CR definition of "Ability". What I provided was how the M14 rule change effected indestructible to bring it more in line with how it was expected to work, as well as a layman's explanation of what constitutes an ability. If something made itself indestructible it was always removed by Humility
. The only problem was that if Object A made Object B indestructible it wasn't granting an ability before M14 rules change; It was Object A's ability affecting Object B.
-MisterJ- says... #1
That qualifies as an ability, so you have a 1/1 with nothing special.
July 19, 2014 4:54 a.m.