Weird State Based actions and triggers

Asked by chosenone124 2 years ago

I have an Angelic Curator on the battlefield. I cast Sudden Spoiling targeting myself. Next, I equip Skullclamp to the 0/2 Angelic Curator.

At the end step, Sudden Spoiling's effect will fade, making the Curator a 2/0 with Skullclamp attached to it. Will I get my Skullclamp trigger? I believe SBAs will cause Curator to die and Skullclamp to fall off at the same time.

Neotrup says... Accepted answer #1

704.7. If a state-based action results in a permanent leaving the battlefield at the same time other statebased actions were performed, that permanent's last known information is derived from the game state before any of those state-based actions were performed.

Even though a state based action does unattach Skullclamp from Angelic Curator because it was attached before state based actions were checked, the Skullclamp does trigger and you will draw 2 cards.

July 2, 2017 2:40 a.m.

chosenone124 says... #2

Neotrup, all this stuff happens during the upkeep of my opponent's turn right? Since no one gets priority during cleanup.

Anyway, let me see if I get this straight.

Checks round 1: Check notes a 0 toughness creature and an equipment on a protected card. SBAs performed

Unattach Skullclamp and Angelic Curator is put into the graveyard

Because an SBA was triggered, we do another round of checks

Checks round 2: The last known information about Curator is "This card was equipped with Skullclamp". Since it died, using that information we place the Skullclamp trigger on the stack

Because an SBA was triggered, we do another round of checks

Checks round 3: No checks triggered. Player receives priority.

July 2, 2017 3:25 a.m.

sonnet666 says... #3

No, all of this happens during the cleanup step of your turn.

It still works the way Neotrup said, but here's the breakdown if you're interested:

514. Cleanup Step

  • 514.1. First, if the active players hand contains more cards than his or her maximum hand size (normally seven), he or she discards enough cards to reduce his or her hand size to that number. This turn-based action doesnt use the stack.

Not important

  • 514.2. Second, the following actions happen simultaneously: all damage marked on permanents (including phased-out permanents) is removed and all until end of turn and this turn effects end. This turn-based action doesnt use the stack.

Sudden Spoiling's effect wears off here.

  • 514.3. Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:

  • 514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger at the beginning of the next cleanup step). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins

SBA's are checked, and two actions need to be performed:

Both actions are taken as a single event as per rule 704.3:

  • 704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 116, Timing and Priority), the game checks for any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no state-based actions are performed as the result of the step's first check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.

Because of rule 704.7, Angelic Curator's last known information is that it had Skullclamp attached to it as it died. This is not determined with a second SBA check like you said. It is simply information about the creature.

Skullclamp triggers now, and waits to go on the stack.

A second SBA check is performed, and finds nothing to do in this example.

Skullclamp's trigger goes on the stack.

The active player gets priority.

July 2, 2017 3:50 a.m.

chosenone124 says... #4

I need to go to law school before I get this stuff.

July 2, 2017 3:56 a.m.

sonnet666 says... #5

This stuff is making me think more and more about going to law school actually...

July 2, 2017 4:04 a.m.

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