Turn phases and the Stack
Asked by RedDiomedes 8 years ago
I think as my understanding of the game grows and I start to play more complex combos and have them played on me my understanding of the turn phases is becoming more of a problem .
My understanding is that the start of combat, the declare attackers step, the declare blockers step etc dont use the stack.
Yet the way Ii play and have observed others play is that you always ask your opponent if he has nothing more to do before you go to the next step. Why? If it does not use the stack should it not be uninterruptable? Mana abilities and morph don't use the stack and cant be responded to so whats going on? .
Than in a specific example:My opponenet has Brutal Hordechief and a 1/1. He attacks me for lethal. unless I can block both. I instant Secure the Wastes just before the declare blockers step and block both with my two 1/1s. He plays the ability of Brutal Hordechief and forces both my 1/1s to block his 1/1 and kills me. Was that play legal? Was there any way to avoid that from happening by playing the steps differently?
veritas723 says... #2
if you look at the "oracle" or gatherer site on the rulings for Brutal Hordechief there's a ruling that states... it'll control the blocking choice of creatures even if they didnt' exist as the ability resolves. Since it's an activated ability. player can pay the cost and fire it off whenever.
Basically. you cast an instant. that went on the stack, he fired off the ability of brutal hordechief. it resolved. your Secure the Wastes resolved generating tokens. the other player... would still get to choice your blocking.
it's more so the ability of the hordecheif, than rules about the combat phases.
generally speaking. it's a priority thing. person would, declare, going to combat step. to signal, leaving main phase, declare attackers, then you get to declare blockers. and then combat damage step, and then end step. at each of those points. you could declare ...casting or doing something, to assume priority. but the opponent then gets a chance to respond if possible.
i think the only question that would matter is. does brutal hordechief's ability override, already declared blockers? like if he activated the ability after you resolved the secure the wastes ...and declared them as blockers. That i don't know. but unless that's a thing. what your opponent did would work. and the priority/or combat step wouldn't really matter
September 13, 2015 6:03 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #3
veritas723, Brutal Hordechief cannot override previously declared blockers, as if a blocker has already been declared, nothing can change that block.
September 13, 2015 6:06 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #4
Both of you are correct. The rulings of the declare attackers/blockers steps state that once all attackers are declared, each player will get an opportunity to have priority and cast spells and such.
- Declare Attackers Step
508.1. First, the active player declares attackers.
508.2. Second, any abilities that triggered on attackers being declared go on the stack.
508.3. Third, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities
With your Secure the Wastes on the stack, your opponent can activate Brutal Hordechiefs ability, and still decide how your new creatures will block.
11/24/2014 Youll choose how each creature controlled by an opponent blocks, even if that creature wasnt on the battlefield or wasnt controlled by an opponent as the activated ability resolved.
Now, the activated ability cannot "re-target" a creature once it's been declared as a blocker.
If Brutal Hordechief's ability was activated at the end of the "declare blockers" step, it would essentially do nothing as all the creatures have already either been declared as blocking, or are not. They cannot be re-arranged and re-assigned to different creatures. Hope this helps you out!
September 13, 2015 6:29 p.m.
The last chance you have to play Secure the Wastes where you will still be able to declare them as blocking creatures is during the Declare Attackers step. If he activates the ability of Brutal Hordechief while your spell is on the stack, he will be able to choose your blockers. If he allows your spell to resolve creating two 1/1 creatures, he gets priority during which time he can -still- activate the ability and choose your blocking.
If he passes priority after Secure the Wastes resolves, and you also pass priority, you move to the Declare Blockers step in which you first assign your blockers as a turn-based action which doesn't use the stack, after which the Hordechief's ability will not do anything.
Basically: There are multiple times during which your opponent can use the Hordechief's ability after he knows you will have blockers, before you can actually assign blockers.
TheNextRedDude says... Accepted answer #1
You seem to have a flawed understanding of the stack. Turns and phases do not use the stack, spells and abilities do. Whenever a player plays a spell or activates an ability, the other player gets a chance to respond with a spell or ability of their own, which gets put on the top of the stack, and then the first player gets passed priority (the opportunity to play spells/abilities). When no player wishes to respond, the spells resolve in order of time played, with the most recent spell or ability resolving first and the first to be played resolving last. At the end of each step, the player whose turn it is not gets priority, and they can do something. In your scenario, there are two ways it could happen. If he played the ability in response to Secure the Wastes, then his play would be legal. If he did it after you declared blockers, it would still be a legal play, but he would not be able to choose how your creatures block, since blockers have already been declared.
September 13, 2015 6 p.m.