Totem Armor vs Lifelink and Infect

Asked by Spirits 6 years ago

Stonehewer Giant equipped with Grafted Exoskeleton and Loxodon Warhammer and Hammer of Nazahn who is paired with Silverblade Paladin is blocked by a Managorger Hydra with Bear Umbra and 19 +1/+1 counters.

This is how we resolved, but not sure if we were correct:

First strike hits dealing 11 damage as -1/-1 counters. So the hydra now has 8 +1/+1 counters left. Giant lifelinks 11.

Giant normal hits dealing 11 damage as -1/-1 counters, Hydra hits back for 11 damage. Hydra now has 3 -1/-1 counters on him. Giant lifelinks 11.

Giant is indestructible he survives.

Since the hydra would be destroyed Bear umbra is destroyed instead, and he gets his 19 +1/+1 counters back as damage is removed.

I was trying to argue my Stonehewer Giant wasnt destroying the Hydra he was simply put in graveyard as his toughness was 0 so totem armor doesnt do anything.

They were arguing that because the damage was removed, and thus the -1/-1 counters removed, that I wouldnt get lifelink.

Next turn was attacked by the hydra with a Triumph of the Hordes and lost due to the infect, but still felt like that hydra shouldnt have all those +1/+1 counters still on it, and probably shouldnt be there at all.

Was a casual game so no judges or anything. Just want to know who is right.

Thanks,

Spirits

Lame_Duck says... Accepted answer #1

You were correct. Destroy refers specifically to effects that say "destroy" or a creature having more damage marked on it than its toughness:

701.7b The only ways a permanent can be destroyed are as a result of an effect that uses the word destroy or as a result of the state-based actions that check for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g) or damage from a source with deathtouch (see rule 704.5h). If a permanent is put into its owners graveyard for any other reason, it hasnt been destroyed.

704.5g If a creature has toughness greater than 0, and the total damage marked on it is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed. Regeneration can replace this event.

Whereas a creature with infect doesn't mark any damage, it puts -1/-1 counters, which reduces the opposing creature to less than 0 toughness:

702.89c Damage dealt to a creature by a source with infect isnt marked on that creature. Rather, it causes that sources controller to put that many -1/-1 counters on that creature. See rule 119.3.

704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, its put into its owners graveyard. Regeneration cant replace this event.

December 23, 2017 4:54 a.m. Edited.

Spirits says... #2

Lame_Duck,

So Bear Umbra / Totem Armor doesn't work. Hydra is gone? Does the Lifelink trigger for the Infect Damage/Counters.

December 23, 2017 5:35 p.m.

Lame_Duck says... #3

Yes, the Hydra goes to the graveyard for having 0 or less toughness, which isn't the same as being "destroyed", so totem armor has no effect, and you gain life as normal from lifelink (although, to be precise, lifelink doesn't trigger; it's a static ability).

December 23, 2017 7:01 p.m.

Spirits says... #5

Thanks Lame_Duck!!

December 23, 2017 11:36 p.m.