Torunament rulings regarding Prowess announcements
Asked by BlueScope 9 years ago
First of all, if I'm not mistaken, you don't have to announce triggers until they actually matter - which for Prowess is in the damage step of combat, correct?
My first question is, if an opponent asks me what the current power/toughness of a creature is, do I have to tell them (at REL)? Alternatively, if they ask me how many prowess-triggering spells I cast, do I have to answer them? I would guess I have to answer at REL, but not at Competitive, similar to cards in hand, where it never can be hidden from my opponent, but at competitive they'd have to count themselves if I choose not to answer them.
Then, if they casually say something like "I'll just block your 1/2 Monastery Swiftspear with my 2/2, it won't die anyway", where the Swiftspear really already is a 2/3 because of a Prowess trigger - do I have to correct them, or can I let them walk into the "trap"? This is what I'm wondering in combination with the aforementioned "don't have to announce things until they matter" thing.Again, if there's a difference between REL and Competitive, please tell me.
Thanks in advance!
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2
Right, you only have to acknowledge a trigger by the time it would first have a visible impact on the game. For Prowess, this is usually the Combat Damage step.
A creature's P/T is "derived information". You can't misrepresent (lie about) derived information, but you're not obligated to help your opponent figure it out. At Regular REL all derived information is instead "free information". You have to answer questions about free information honestly and completely.
If your opponent asks you a question like "how many times has that creature's Prowess ability triggered this turn?" (maybe as a follow-up to your refusal to calculate the current P/T for them), that's actually a question about free information, since it's about previous game actions that still affect the current game state. You have to answer that one honestly.
You don't have to respond at all to "well I'll block your 1/2 with my 2/2". No one is asking you a question about anything. Your opponent is simply making a strategic mistake.
February 11, 2015 8:15 p.m.
That makes a lot of sense, I was never aware of the difference between free and derived information regarding rules, so that's very interesting.
One last question in the matter... if they instead would ask whether their 2/2 would die if being blocked by my Swiftspear (assuming current board state, but not specifically asking about Prowess or P/T), do I have to answer that? I'm not sure if that's "already" derived information, or falls under decisionmaking.
Also, am I correct to assume that in case they say "I'll block your 1/2 with my 2/2, my creature won't die", it would be a rules violation to reply with "Correct" (because then you would lie about it, or otherwise miss your Prowess trigger)?
February 12, 2015 7:02 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #4
It depends on exactly how the question is asked and exactly what kind of verbal hoops you jump through while answering it. I don't play in the gray area, so I don't know what advice to give you beyond the normal communication policies. Here are the official definitions of each type of information:
- Free Information is details of current game actions and past game actions that still affect the game state; the name of any visible object; the type of any counter in a public zone; the physical status (tapped/flipped/unattached/phased) and current zone of any object; player life totals, poison counter totals, and the game score of the current match; the current step and/or phase and which player(s) are active
- Derived Information is the number of any type of objects present in any game zone; all characteristics of objects in public zones that are not defined as free information; Game Rules, Tournament Policy, Oracle content and any other official information pertaining to the current tournament (cards are considered to have their Oracle text printed on them)
- Private Information is anything not Derived or Free
Remember that you can't misrepresent Derived or Free information, and that at Regular REL all Derived information is Free.
Though certain types of angle-shooting are perfectly legal, there are some that toe the line and others that just aren't okay. Trying to be too clever with "Jedi mind tricks" on your opponents can get you into trouble if you're not careful (and can earn you a bad reputation).
February 12, 2015 1:50 p.m.
I figure as much... it's also not about trying to gain an advantage by manipulating the communication, the topic just came up while testplaying the other day. I think of myself as a more friendly and helpful player than someone who wants to win all the time - going from there, I feel like it's a good thing to know what I can choose to say and what I necessarily have to mention, where otherwise I would break the game's rules.
Anyway, thanks for the elaborate answers, it helped me understand the whole matter a lot!
BlueScope says... #1
And of course, this should be "Tournament rulings", but at least, that typo is only in the first word of the title, so it's not embarassing at all!
February 11, 2015 5:47 p.m.