Thing in the ice w/ artisan of forms
Asked by scipionumantia 8 years ago
i am wondering if I play Thing in the Ice Flip then play Artisan of Forms if Artisan of Forms would then act as Awoken Horror once targeted? Thing in the Ice Flip enters the battlefield with 4 ice tokens, but Artisan of Forms becomes a copy of the creature and is already on the battlefield by the time heroic ability can be triggered therefore would not gain any tokens.
I suppose aside from the above i have 2 additional questions; 1- would Artisan of Forms copy the tokens currently on Thing in the Ice Flip at the time of the heroic trigger? or would it become a copy of Thing in the Ice Flip with 0 tokens and immediately become Awoken Horror? and 2- would Awoken Horror bounce Artisan of Forms back to your hand? or would artisan also take on the 'horror' creature type?
GoblinsInc says... Accepted answer #2
You wouldn't normally flip it until after you cast an instant or sorcery, as the transform action is part of the triggered ability. It wouldn't constantly check to see how many counters is on it. That said, a non double faced card can't ever transform.
711.5. Only permanents represented by double-faced cards can transform. (See rule 701.25, "Transform.") If a spell or ability instructs a player to transform any permanent that isn't represented by a double-faced card, nothing happens.Example: A Clone enters the battlefield as a copy of Wildblood Pack (the back face of a double-faced card). The Clone will be a copy of the Wildblood Pack. Because the Clone is itself not a double-faced card, it can't transform.Example: A player casts Cytoshape, causing a Kruin Outlaw (the front face of a double-faced card) to become a copy of Elite Vanguard (a 2/1 Human Soldier creature) until end of turn. The player then casts Moonmist, which reads, in part, "Transform all Humans." Because the copy of Elite Vanguard is a double-faced card, it will transform. The resulting permanent will have its back face up, but it will still be a copy of Elite Vanguard that turn.
April 15, 2016 3:47 p.m.
scipionumantia says... #3
thats what im thinking OneWinged ive been reading forums since i posted this. many times ive wanted to use Artisan of Forms and hoped it would adapt the tokens, this is the one time its finally exceptionally useful! some of the forums i have read say Artisan of Forms does adapt creature type as well, if all this is true that could lead to a very devastating combo on turn 3. my plan is;T1: Mountain/Forest, Wild CantorT2: Island/Hinterland Harbor/Sulfur Falls, Artisan of FormsT3: "land", Thing in the Ice Flip, Skin Invasion on Wild Cantor, sac Wild Cantor to get a flipped Skin Invasion plus add any color mana to your mana pool, then some thing like Assault Strobe to make Artisan of Forms into Awoken Horror, swing turn 3 for 14. and since your opponents creatures will be bounced back to their hands (unless theyre horrors/land creatures)(<--unlikely)itll be essentially unblockable.all this plus now you got your legit Thing in the Ice Flip down to 3 counters.
April 15, 2016 3:49 p.m.
scipionumantia says... #4
thank you GoblinsInc i thought i was onto something here, pesky rules haha
OneWinged says... #1
"The copiable values of an object are its name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and loyalty. Counters on the object being copied and objects attached to it, such as Auras or Equipment, are not copied."
My guess is that Artisan of Forms copies all abilities of Thing in the Ice Flip, but the second one only applies when it enters the battlefield, and since Artisan of Forms is already on the battlefield you won't be getting the 4 counters. Then you might directly get a Thing in the Ice Flip flipped...
It's a good question and would need someone else to confirm.
April 15, 2016 3:32 p.m.