Synergy between Mentor of the Meek, Cathars' Crusade, & Where Ancients Tread

Asked by TypicalTimmy 1 week ago

I'm designing a Boros Soul Sisters deck, where not only do I push my life total ever higher, but I also hit my opponent endlessly. I can manage this with select cards such as Impact Tremors and Purphoros, God of the Forge.

While making a list of cards, I noticed a small possible synergy between the three in question:

So my question seems, at face value, a bit silly. Is it possible to get all triggers to happen in my benefit? I'm not entirely sure if they can. That's why I'm on here.

I know that when a player has multiple triggered abilities happen all at once, the player who controls the abilities chooses the ordering on the stack, and therefore chooses how they resolve.

Suppose I have in Assemble the Legion with quite a few counters on it. This is what happens:

  • My 1/1 Red & White creature tokens enter the battlefield.
  • My creatures get +X/+X either in counters on until end of turn (Depending on which enchantment I am using at the time).
  • Mentor of the Meek tries to trigger and can't, because my creatures are over Power 2.
  • Warstorm Surge or Where Ancients Tread triggers and hits for tons of damage.

So in this example, I lose out on potential draw. So let's rework things a bit here.

  • My 1/1 Red & White creature tokens enter the battlefield.
  • Mentor of the Meek sees they are less than Power 2, so I can pay a few times and draw.
  • Either white Enchantment triggers and my creatures get +X/+X
  • Warstorm Surge triggers and they deal damage equal to their Power, and / or Where Ancients Tread triggers and deals 5 damage as long as my creatures are Power 5 or higher.

Does this work? Can I hit both the trigger for Mentor of the Meek and the trigger for Warstorm Surge / Where Ancients Tread off of the same creatures, as long as their Power is increased between checks?

Neotrup says... Accepted answer #1

The abilities all trigger at the same time, but you choose the order they resolve.

Mentor of the Meek doesn't care about what the creature's power is, only what the power was when it entered, so it will let you draw a card regardless of whether it resolves before or after Cathars' Crusade

Similarly, Where Ancients Tread only cares about the creature's power when it entered, so it won't trigger at all off 1/1s entering, and won't deal any damage.

The reason for this on those cards is the trigger condition. "When a creature with power X or (greater/less} enters the battlefield." If a creature enters and it's power changes, it's too late to effect the trigger.

Compare to Warstorm Surge, which triggers off a creature entering. This will always trigger off a creature entering, because that's the only requirement. Now, it does care about the power when it finally resolves to deal the damage, so whether or not Cathars' Crusade has resolved is important, because it uses the power the creature currently has (or had when it left the battlefield) to determine the amount of damage.

October 10, 2018 1:36 a.m.

Neotrup says... #2

Oh! Also, it is possible for an ability to care about the creature's power both when it enters, and when the ability resolves. This is handled by an intervening if clause. The ability form is "when [trigger], if [clause], [effect]." Which you'll notice none of the cards you mentioned had such a clause. An example of a card with one is Sigil Captain which requires the entering creature to be a 1/1 in order for the ability to trigger, and still be a 1/1 when the ability resolves in order to actually do anything.

October 10, 2018 1:38 a.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #3

So in order for my diabolical synergy to work, I'd want Mentor of the Meek, Cathars' Crusade / Valor in Akros & Warstorm Surge.

Effectively, Where Ancients Tread is out. Hm. That's really cool. Thank you. It'll help save room which can be used for Impact Tremors to help get the ball rolling a bit sooner.

October 10, 2018 1:44 a.m.

Pieguy396 says... #4

Please be sure to mark the answer as accepted so this can be removed from the unanswered queue.

October 14, 2018 12:21 p.m.

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