Still more Phage Interactions, Including but not limited to Endless Whispers. Yes, I am a Johnny.
Asked by eatmygender 5 years ago
Alright, so, when Phage the Untouchable would get removed while Endless Whispers is in play, it automatically kills the player who is the target of the Endless Whispers trigger. But after that...? Since the player loses the game, all the permanents in play under their control return to their owners, but would that trigger Phage's ETB trigger again? Or would it in essence cast her with no downside to me and kill an opponent in the process? On a related note someone explain the broken mess of a card Lich's Mastery is?? There's seemingly no downside and the card is already frustratingly confusing.
Whoops, correction to my answer: Endless Whispers is NOT a control-changing effect. The game has no "memory" of who controlled Phage before Endless Whispers put her onto the battlefield (new permanent, after all). Instead this falls under the last part of "what happens when a player leaves the game." It's simply exiled.
What happens when a player leaves the game is this:
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All objects owned by that player leave the game. This means every card in their deck.
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All control-changing effects end. This means the other players get their permanents or spells back if that permanent or spell had its control change without it changing zones.
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Anything else controlled by that player on the stack (such as spell copies from Isochron Scepter) ceases to exist.
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Finally, anything that player somehow still controls, including creatures put onto the battlefield directly under their control from Bribery, Reanimate, or Endless Whispers, is exiled.
October 16, 2018 2:04 a.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #3
Kogarashi: Small correction on Lich's Mastery, you still lose life while it's out, but you generally won't care much, as you won't lose the game for running out of it.
October 16, 2018 2:11 a.m.
eatmygender says... #4
So, in essence, playing Jeska (Phage, I'm a lore nerd) out while Endless Whispers is in play and Removing it is a fancy way to pay 7 Mana to Kill your Opponent and garner a Commander tax? Sounds pretty eh. I do think that Lich's Mastery would synergize well with Palace Siege, might try to make that work. I appreciate the help with the interactions!!
October 16, 2018 9:24 a.m.
Well, there's lore, and then there's cards. ;) Jeska, Warrior Adept is a different card from Phage the Untouchable. And then of course you could technically count Karona, False God if you want to go the lore route....
But yes, killing your Phage with Endless Whispers on the board is a fancy way to take out an opponent in one shot, that you get to repeat if she's your commander but otherwise need to find a different workaround. Not terrible, but maybe not always something to try to build around.
October 16, 2018 5:33 p.m.
Thanks for the correction, Tyrant-Thanatos. That'll teach me to answer questions late at night.
Kogarashi says... #1
Endless Whispers is essentially a control-changing effect. When a player leaves the game, all control-changing effects they control end, which would return control of Phage the Untouchable to its owner. It's already on the battlefield, so it's not entering again. Just changing control. So its ETB won't trigger at this point.
Lich's Mastery is pretty strong, but does have downsides.
While it has hexproof, it can still be taken out by sweep effects like Tranquility, or you could end up sacrificing it to something like Annihilator, at which point you lose the game.
If you're gaining life while this is in play, you're drawing cards. If you don't have a Reliquary Tower effect in play, you're also discarding cards, which means not being able to cast them. Obviously this is something to build around.
People can still attack you with creatures, target you with burn spells, drain you with life-drain effects, and so on. You won't lose life from them, but you do have to exile permanents you control and cards from your hand and graveyard instead, for each life you would've lost. Unless you've found a way to be constantly creating new permanents or drawing new cards, you will eventually have to exile more than you have access to, at which point you will end up exiling Lich's Mastery, at which point you lose the game. If you're exiling your defenses against attacks, it becomes even easier to hurt you, forcing you to exile things.
In effect, this card paints a big target on you until everyone else takes you out, or you pull off your wincon.
October 16, 2018 1:54 a.m.