State-Based Action checks with Mechanized Production and Tamiyo's Journal

Asked by clayperce 7 years ago

If I Enchant Tamiyo's Journal with Mechanized Production, when do I check State-based Actions?

I'd like to stack the triggers at the Beginning of my Upkeep so it works like this:

  • Journal triggers; I Investigate.
  • Production triggers; I create a token copy of Journal.
  • The Journal copy triggers; I Investigate.
  • SBA check: I place the Journal copy in the graveyard due to the Legend rule.

Is that how it works, or do I have to check SBA after each trigger (i.e., before the copy can trigger and I can Investigate )?

Thanks tons!

GearNoir says... #1

Essentially SBA checks are happening all the time throughout the game as priorities pass and triggers are placed on the stack, etc. SBAs themselves do not use the stack. As soon as a copy of Tamiyo's Journal is made, you would be required to place one of the Journals in the graveyard. In your scenario this would be after the Journal copy is created and before the Journal copy's Clue ability triggers.

Rule:

  • _704.5k If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners graveyards. This is called the legend rule.__
January 16, 2017 8:31 p.m.

Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #2

This doesn't work, but not for the reason you may think. Anything that triggers "at the beginning of (a phase)" only triggers when that phase begins. If another object with an ability that would trigger at the beginning of that phase appears after that point, the game doesn't back up and re-start the phase again.

In this situation, the original Tamiyo's Journal and Mechanized Production both trigger at the beginning of your upkeep. After the Production's trigger resolves, it makes a copy of the Journal. The beginning of your upkeep has already passed, so there's nothing for the Journal copy to trigger off of.

Since you asked: when a triggered ability triggers, it's put onto the stack the next time a player would get priority. SBAs, however, are checked and dealt with right before each time a player would get priority. This interaction doesn't matter in your particular situation.

January 16, 2017 8:32 p.m.

clayperce says... #3

GearNoir,
But ETB triggers work, despite the Legendary rule (e.g., in this old thread on the interaction of Blade of Selves with various Commanders). So why not 'at the beginning of your upkeep' triggers?

Rhadamanthus,
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks much!

January 16, 2017 9:57 p.m. Edited.

Gidgetimer says... #4

Just to be clear since I didn't see it explicitly stated somewhere, Abilities are able to trigger when a player does not have priority or is not about to receive priority. The trigger just waits until a player would receive and goes on the stack after SBA are checked but before the player actually does receive priority.

Once a trigger condition has been met it will go on the stack, even if the permanent it was on leaves the battlefield before it goes on the stack. This is why Blade of Selves will give you triggers off of legendary creatures. It is also why if you somehow have two Tamiyo's Journal on the battlefield before the start of your upkeep but after the last time priority is received before that point you will get both triggers. Phasing is the only way I can think of to do this.

January 17, 2017 10:48 a.m.

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