Rakdos Return and Nykthos

Asked by Ijustliketolift 7 months ago

I was playing standard last night against a R/B agro deck. My opponent had a few creatures out I don't remember which ones exactly but enough to give him around 6 devotion, he also had 4 mountains, 4 swamps and 1 nythkos, shrine to nyx. His turn he played a swamp, then used nythkos ability to give him 6 devotion, he then played a second nythkos, legendary rule activating destroying the first tapped one and used it again for 12 floating mana then a third time all in one turn had 18 floating. With that and his left over regular land he played rakdos return hitting me for 19 I only had 17 left.

My question is can you use nythkos ability play another one and use it again?

billpasdmf says... Accepted answer #1

Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx You should always link the cards in your questions.Mana will drain at the end of each phase. As long as it was in the same phase, then there is nothing to stop someone playing a second Nykthos, losing the first and using the second one's ability. However, you can only play one land a turn. Unless your opponnent was using a spell or ability that allowed for playing of multiple lands a turn, then playing anything past the swamp (in your example) would be illegal.

March 5, 2014 11:11 a.m.

nobu_the_bard says... #2

I'm not familiar with all the cards referenced, it'd help to link them:
Rakdos's Return
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

Yes, well... I'm confused how he did that three times, though. I mean, the trick is legitimate, but it still takes a land play! That first swamp he dropped would have used his land play, unless he had something that allowed more land plays in his turn.

That the land he plays is legendary and that the first one he used for the trick was sacrificed doesn't affect the fact that it takes a land play to do the trick. You activate the first one (that you already had out), then play the second one, sacrificing the first due to the legendary rule; then you activate the second one. You can't do it again in the same turn because you already used your land play.

March 5, 2014 11:12 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #3

Please link all cards in your question.
Rakdos's Return
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

How exactly did your opponent play three lands?

Also, the legend rule doesn't activate. Only activated abilities are activated. The legend rule is a state-based action, and it doesn't destroy anything. When a single player controls multiple copies of a legendary permanent, all but one of those permanents are put into their owner's graveyard. No destruction, no sacrifice, etc.

Let's ignore that part for now, though. The answer to your question is yes. You can activate Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx 's second ability to float mana, then play another Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx , legend rule the original (tapped) one, and tap the new one. You can then use all that floating mana to cast Rakdos's Return for a greater X value.

March 5, 2014 11:12 a.m.

billpasdmf says... #4

Note, it doesn't matter if a land is basic or non-basic, you are typically only allowed to play one land a turn.

March 5, 2014 11:13 a.m.

GreatSword says... #5

Yes, you can, but a player is still restricted to only playing one land a turn. This line of play would have been completely legal if he hadn't first played that swamp before the second Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx .

March 5, 2014 11:14 a.m.

Aerokid says... #6

If I'm understanding you correctly, he played a swamp and 2 Nykthos in the same turn? Like everyone before me said, playing another Nykthos, legend ruling the old one, then activating the new one is legal, but playing 3 lands in the same turn is incredibly illegal.

March 5, 2014 11:40 a.m.

gufymike says... #7

No, I read it as 2 lands in the same turn, 1 Swamp and then 1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx I think the confusion is after he played the swamp he activated the existing nykthos, then played the second one and activated it. Still how can he play 2 lands in one turn in the current standard?

March 5, 2014 11:51 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #8

He said he played a Swamp, then a Nykthos, then a third Nykthos.

See "then a third time."

March 5, 2014 11:56 a.m.

billpasdmf says... #9

gufymike Trivial nitpicking but, quote: "he then played a second nythkos, legendary rule activating destroying the first tapped one and used it again for 12 floating mana then a third time all in one turn had 18 floating..."

March 5, 2014 11:58 a.m.

billpasdmf says... #10

The only thing I can come up w/ is the opponent in the example being under the impression that either non-basic or legendary lands don't count as your land play for the turn. But that's just silly.

March 5, 2014 noon

Aerokid says... #11

Also that's the only way to get a Return off for 19. 8 basics, play a 9th and activate Nykthos leaving 7 basics and floating 6. Drop Nykthos #2 and activate leaving 5 basics and 12 floating. Drop #3 for 3 basics and 18 floating. Last 3 basics for 21 total, Return for 19.

That dude was cheating hardcore, or needs to learn the rules.

March 5, 2014 12:01 p.m.

gufymike says... #12

oki, still D:

March 5, 2014 12:03 p.m.

billpasdmf says... #13

Aerokid I'd wager a lack of knowledge of the rules. I've known of people who were that at some point were under the impression that you can play all your lands as soon as you draw them. Like, 3 lands and 4 spells on the draw = start w/ 3 lands.

Reading is not the enemy.

March 5, 2014 12:09 p.m.

I tried to link the cards, don't think I got the spelling right, yeah he was saying that if its a legendary land it doesn't count towards the basic one land per turn, I don't have any of those lands never played against them before, didn't think of it, but now I know basically he can do it but only with one land drop per turn even if it is legendary. Thank you all

March 5, 2014 2:06 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #15

It's not one basic land drop per turn. It's one land drop per turn.

March 5, 2014 2:07 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #16

Also, please remember to select an answer.

March 5, 2014 2:07 p.m.

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