Question about Remand
Asked by Tanker12 7 years ago
First off I would like to say that I don't know if this is the correct forum to discuss this in, as i am not posting a deck list or asking about a specific archetype. A forum devoted to card rulings would be absolutely fantastic!! So I would like to know what happens when Remand has no target to counter. Do I still get to draw considering there is no then clause between the counter effect and draw, or does the spell completely fizzle due to a kack of a target?
Okay thank you very much. This was a very important question for me.
November 28, 2016 6:53 a.m.
There is a forum about card ruling - look at the header - Rules Q&A is just the place.
November 28, 2016 7:08 a.m.
OK. So.
Player 1 casts a lightning boltPlayer 2 Remands the boltPlayer 1 then Mana Leaks their bolt and it is counteredPlayer 2's remand then has no target, counters due to this and you do not get the draw
November 28, 2016 7:36 a.m.
Answers have clarified two scenarios:
You would like to cast Remand without targets, just to draw a card. You can't
You would like to cast Remand targeting an uncounterable spell (like Abrupt Decay) just to draw a card. You can, and the uncounterable spell will obviouly not be countered
There is also a third case, when you cast Remand on a valid target, but for some reason the target spell disappears before Remand can resolve (for example, if the opponent casts an instant spell, you then try to Remand it and the opponent in response removes his or her instant spell from the stack with a Nivmagus Elemental)
From my understanding, quoting the "fizzle" Rule 608.2b ("The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word target, are now illegal"), the resolving Remand can't find the its target instant spell anywhere and it is countered by the rule (it "fizzles"). A countered spell will not resolve in its entirety, so you won't even get to draw a card
November 28, 2016 7:51 a.m.
LeaPlath You're correct in my opinion. Let's await confirmation.
November 28, 2016 7:52 a.m.
Yes, this third scenario is indeed correct. Remand has to have a valid target when it resolves for any part of it to resolve, including the cantrip portion
November 28, 2016 7:56 a.m.
My answer is narrow. I have made an example where the spell targeted by Remand disappears before Remand resolves, but there are other possibilities that result in Remand fizzling:
The opponent auto-counters its own spell (weird) with e.g.Cancel
The enemy spell becomes uncouterable after remand is played, but before it resolves: for example, your opponent plays "determined" (Bound/Determined) in response to your Remand.
The key concept is that the target of remand has to become illegal after Remand is cast for Remand to fizzle.
November 28, 2016 8:02 a.m.
I've made a mistake yet again. If the opponent makes his spell uncounterable with e.g. Bound/Determined, Remand doesn't fizzle but it will draw you a card. As with the Abrupt Decay example, the spell made uncounterable by Determined will resolve and not be countered.
November 28, 2016 8:09 a.m.
I'm not sure why there are a million answers after the first one (which in my opinion is complete), but to clear up the confusion, here's everything discussed so far explained:
- In order to cast a spell, you have to choose legal targets while putting it on the stack. Remand targets a spell, so you can only cast it if there's a spell on the stack to target.
- When a spell would resolve and all of its targets have become illegal (happening most likely because it's not on the stack anymore, for example because it was countered at this point), that spell "fizzles", meaning it's countered by the game rules. Just like being countered any other way, its effects won't happen.
- Effects like Determined that prevent a spell from being countered, or cards like Abrupt Decay that can't be countered on their own, don't prevent that spell from being targetted and therefore don't make the target declaration illegal. A spell targetting those spells won't fizzle.
Scouty says... Accepted answer #1
You cannot cast remand without a valid target, so there is no way to draw a card without there being something that you can counter.
As a side note, if someone casts something like Abrupt Decay, which cannot be countered, you can still cast remand just to cycle it through. Decay will still resolve uncountered, and it'll still go to the graveyard, but you'll still draw a card.
November 28, 2016 6:51 a.m.